Work in progress ...

A place for talking about this place
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Madrigal
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Re: Work in progress ...

Post by Madrigal » Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:46 pm

Utisz wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:26 am
Any suggestions for a name?
If we want people to join? INTP dating

oxyjen wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:20 pm
Step number 1 is seeing if we even have enough members coming over to form a community.

I mean, if the Maddy-signal goes out, and less than 20 people are rounded up, then assimilation to an already existing site may make more sense.

I'm gonna set out some baked goods.
I thought of that, but there's a reason we haven't already done it. xD

I don't have much of a signal right now, lol. Maybe some people on FB.

If we make our own test, I think it could help with numbers.

Sinny
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Re: Work in progress ...

Post by Sinny » Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:53 pm

Maybe a Typology forum
- MBTI
- Jung
- Big 5
- Enneagram
- Whatever Else

Playground
- Utiz game/Quiz thread
- Mafia
- something
- something

World Events
- Current Affairs
- History
- something
- something

Politics & Sociology
- Psychology & Sociology
- Politics
- something

Arts & Entertainment
- Movies
- TV shows
- Music
- Art
- Games

Members Only
- Blog Threads
- What we look like
- Parenting
- Relationships & Family
- Little Rants & Hot hair

I'm probably forgetting some crucial discussion points.
Also, is it rude to steal subforum names from INTPc, or should we create new names for subforums? For example "Arts & Entertainment" is pretty damn functional already.

I think little rants should be moved to members only, safe away from co-workers and whoever else might be the subject of rants.

I think "little raves" maybe belongs in the public "playground" or something, as then it's generally just positive stuff being read by people, maybe create feel good vibes.

roki
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Re: Work in progress ...

Post by roki » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:12 pm

It'd be nice to see the term typology itself erased from any main headline and instead opt for personality psychology as a subheading of Psychology with the topics you mentioned falling within

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puerile_polyp
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Re: Work in progress ...

Post by puerile_polyp » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:45 pm

Sinny wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:53 pm
Maybe a Typology forum
- MBTI
- Jung
- Big 5
- Enneagram
- Whatever Else

Playground
- Utiz game/Quiz thread
- Mafia
- something
- something

World Events
- Current Affairs
- History
- something
- something

Politics & Sociology
- Psychology & Sociology
- Politics
- something

Arts & Entertainment
- Movies
- TV shows
- Music
- Art
- Games

Members Only
- Blog Threads
- What we look like
- Parenting
- Relationships & Family
- Little Rants & Hot hair

I'm probably forgetting some crucial discussion points.
Also, is it rude to steal subforum names from INTPc, or should we create new names for subforums? For example "Arts & Entertainment" is pretty damn functional already.

I think little rants should be moved to members only, safe away from co-workers and whoever else might be the subject of rants.

I think "little raves" maybe belongs in the public "playground" or something, as then it's generally just positive stuff being read by people, maybe create feel good vibes.
Civil Discussion(be nice, take it seriously)
-World Affairs
-Psychology & Sociology
-Personalityology
-Jobs and Academics
-Tech
-Relationships and Family
-Advice and Venting (private)
-Feedback/Meta/Technical Issues (private)

Good Times(be nice)
-Little Raves
-Arts and Entertainment
-Blog Threads (private)
-the Playground/Pub/Theme Park

The Arena(insert joker gif)
-Little Rants (private)
-Unpopular Opinions
-Political Shit Pit
-Conspiracies
-The Dive Bar

I dunno, just throwing stuff out there

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Utisz
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Re: Work in progress ...

Post by Utisz » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:15 pm

Sinny wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:13 pm
I really liked the last forum.
Whatever happens, my eye balls need a dark skin.
This was the first thing I installed. :)
It's in the board settings of your user settings somewheres.

Some stuff might look really out of place still if you use it. Also the emoticons have white jaggies.
Sinny wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:32 pm
I don't know what name to suggest. Do we know what sort of forum we want? I think we are all mostly past discussing MBTI, but I'd also like to attract NTs.
Yep, this pretty much. We're more or less past the "I'm a precious INTP snowflake" stage but I think we should still be trying to attract a similar audience. Also "INTP" and the community we have are pretty much the only unique selling points we have (*points to pie chart with laser pointer*).
Blorg wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:52 pm
I really like the name Quora because it comes from "inquiring" and probably appeals to the same type of people. If someone could do some wordplay with NT adjectives (where's Heph) that could lead to a good name.
I also like "quora".

My idea for a name was "postintp" for the double meaning.

(By the way, this domain is not fixed. It was cheap and clean so I went with it for now (of course it would be a bit easier to keep it). We can also use subdomains of course; forum.intp.live is also working for example.)
puerile_polyp wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:08 pm
Thanks Utisz. I'm not too concerned about the name, and this looks like a forum so that's great. I'm gonna reiterate what I said on reddit:
"I think this time it's important that it not be entirely in the hands of a single administrator with final say over everything. I'd like to see a commitment to something like the community deciding on its own rules. And a plan for a stable handover, rather than expecting the same administration to last forever."

I'd like to see more than one trusted admin holding the keys to the shop, and a plan for transferring keys when it becomes clear that an admin isn't up to the job anymore.
Cheers! I'm open to that if we can find a way to make it work. The server is running on Google Cloud (essentially the shittiest free instance possible but it's upgradable any time and I have US$300 free credit). I don't know if I can give people access to the Google Cloud instance, but I'm pretty sure I can give external SSH/SCP to people.

My one concern with this is that it doesn't solve the problem of someone throwing a tantrum and switching off the power on the fish tank. Actually it makes it worse: if we have n people with sudo/root on the server, all it takes is one of those to have a hissy fit and drop all the SQL tables or format the drive or something.

What Ptah did was really shitty. I invested a fuckton into content on that site, like a lot of us did. While he held the keys to the fish tank, it's the fish that add value (and shit I suppose, but that's part of the deal of operating a fish tank; I may have tortured this fish tank metaphor a bit too much). Anyways, I'm open to the idea of giving root/sudo to the server to one or two others in case I wander off, but I think we should also look into ways of making dumps of public content open to everyone, or maybe making an encrypted dump of all content available to everyone with keys in the hands of a couple of people. It took me about an hour to get the basic forum up and running. The content that could be lost, on the other hand, is a whole other issue.
puerile_polyp wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:08 pm
I would also like to see a clear set of rules for behavior that the community can agree on. Modding should be an easy job if there is a good ruleset to follow. The rules should be clear about both what's allowed and also what the chain of responses will be for violations.
In general I favour a light touch. I do not think we will ever reach some sort of computable rules that you can just stick different cases through some algorithm and decide what's best, but I guess we should have some minimal, transparent but simple rules and trying to talk it out in case of disagreement.

We will also need some sort of decision making process. I guess voting is a good way for major decisions (anyone can open a public vote at any time if they don't like something?).
puerile_polyp wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:08 pm
It would be nice if there is a part of the forum where the flaming and trolling we're used to seeing would be okay, and another part of the forum where people are expected to act like grown ups for more elevated discussion.
Sounds good to me.
Stigmata wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:11 pm
Every Friday we should be able to wear more casual attire and the admins should provide lunch. Also, I want paid vacations and maternity leave.
I've got my colourful dickie-bow on right now.
Mx7xM wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:17 pm
I have this silly dystopian ideal of an online community that self regulates and self moderates, so all that is needed are people to implement content generating ideas, and not be the behavioural police or moral arbitrators.
Yeah, something like that would be cool as an "ideal". I guess though we will have to get our hands a little dirty at some stage.
roki wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:31 pm
Rants and pockets of hot air should be a unit.

Subsections to compartmentalize branches of psychology such as neuro, cognitive, and personality would be attractive to "whatever NTs are calling themselves these days," those who reject being classified by MBTI, others with interests in the brain and behavior, and more.

Recently on the other forum, I noticed a user post brain images and related discussion about affect into Little Rants instead of creating a thread in Psychology. This came off as a missed opportunity to showcase the content and encourage discussion, but I suspect it wasn't posted independently due to the "fear of 0-2 responses," which was an observable phenomenon on the other forum concerning thread creation.
We could do something like that.

Personally I would rather not just recreate the old structure just for the sake of it (which I thought was bloated for a low-volume site, and just made it more difficult to find that one thread where someone said something nice about something you wrote when you were drunk late at night). But yep, we need to find a good structure. I see it as something more organic, adding categories/forums as there exists consensus that they are needed.
This could be an unpopular opinion, but a way to encourage content generation would be to implement a "like feature" or allow for relaxed inthread response etiquette, so that the possible perception of wasted time on a thread/post is mitigated
...
puerile_polyp wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:16 pm
I have also thought that a "like" feature could be good. That little dopamine hit of positive feedback encourages people to post and helps people to post stuff that people like.
I was always in favour of some such feature and have already accidentally implemented it trying to find an extension similar to reputation comments. :) This system is not fixed and will need monitoring. At the moment you can give positive or negative reputation on a post with a comment, which is similar to the old system. People can also see the reputation balance, which is new, and I think is good, but they can also see the comments and the people voting, which is maybe not so good(?). Also reputation is aggregated by user, which I think is going too far perhaps. I haven't figured out how configurable it is yet; let's see how it goes.
puerile_polyp wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:16 pm
The "little" threads were the one thing that consistently worked, and I wonder if it might be useful for each subsection to have its own "little" thread, kind of like the old "News articles that don't deserve their own thread". "Little pockets of psychology" or something like that.
Could be! The little threads lower the barrier to post which leads to more content. But the cost is that people tend to over-use them at times, with several threads of discussion crossing streams in them. I guess we need to find a balance.
oxyjen wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:20 pm
Step number 1 is seeing if we even have enough members coming over to form a community.

I mean, if the Maddy-signal goes out, and less than 20 people are rounded up, then assimilation to an already existing site may make more sense.

I'm gonna set out some baked goods.
I was wondering what the burnt smell was.

We could even think about going to INTPforum or something, though that wouldn't be an option for Sinny and might not be a popular option overall. I'm sure some people will also not make the pilgrimage here, particularly those invested heavily in the old site. Maybe Ptah will reboot the site.

Let's see.
Blorg wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:31 pm
Threw together an interim banner for us in Canva since we haven't got a title yet

Image
Thanks! I'll have to crop it a bit to fit the template.

Getting the graphic side sorted seems like it could be significant work, especially with different themes (implying the need for banners / logos with different colour schemes). Probably we should fix the name before going too deep on that.
Madrigal wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:46 pm
If we want people to join? INTP dating
INTPs dating INTPs sounds like a recipe for disaster.
If we make our own test, I think it could help with numbers.
All is possible. The problem is not creating the test though, the problem is getting people from Google to find and select our test over the gazillion others.
Sinny wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:53 pm
I'm probably forgetting some crucial discussion points.
Also, is it rude to steal subforum names from INTPc, or should we create new names for subforums? For example "Arts & Entertainment" is pretty damn functional already.
In general I would be against replicating the old structure for the sake of it, but of course we can try to learn what worked from it.
roki wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:12 pm
It'd be nice to see the term typology itself erased from any main headline and instead opt for personality psychology as a subheading of Psychology with the topics you mentioned falling within
Could be! Regarding the structure, I'm thinking we can agree on some overall "Categories" (highest-level), hopefully not too many, and then choose the forums in those.


Well lots to do. Also I'm busy as fuck and Chile is burning down around me, but baby steps I guess. Before we make big decisions though, I think it's better to let people collect and get the technical framework more or less sorted.

roki
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Re: Work in progress ...

Post by roki » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:46 pm

Regular site is back up, for those who've yet to notice

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Blorg
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Re: Work in progress ...

Post by Blorg » Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:10 pm

roki wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:46 pm
Regular site is back up, for those who've yet to notice
Oh. Well anyway, I think a fresh start is better considering the severe technical issues that the other forum is facing.

/2 cents

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puerile_polyp
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Re: Work in progress ...

Post by puerile_polyp » Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:11 pm

Ugh. He's backpedaling because he wants to stay in charge. It's transparent. I'm so over that place. I haven't wanted to post in my blog for a long time. I already like this place better, it even loads much faster.

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Utisz
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Re: Work in progress ...

Post by Utisz » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:06 pm

Utisz wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:15 pm
What Ptah did was really shitty. I invested a fuckton into content on that site, like a lot of us did. While he held the keys to the fish tank, it's the fish that add value (and shit I suppose, but that's part of the deal of operating a fish tank; I may have tortured this fish tank metaphor a bit too much).
^This of course was assuming that he had actually pulled the plug, but Ptah has said that the site was attacked and he took the server offline as a defensive measure.



Regarding INTPcomplex getting back up, I have mixed feelings about that. It's great to see the content back (except of course the fucking supermarket fantasies that I now have to interpret again) and to see familiar names posting once more. But it has also been fun to think about trying something new here, and about what features might work or not work, how to structure the forums, how to apply moderation, etc.

I'm more than happy to keep this place up and running, but overall I'm not sure we should try to "compete" with INTPcomplex, which may just split a small community into smaller fragments ... especially given that Ptah has said that the site was attacked (rather than him throwing away the key).

Maybe we could consider this as a "sand-box" project and focus on the meta aspect, of trying new things here, new features, new forum structures, etc., perhaps like specing out our own lifeboat, but if members prefer to use this space as their primary venue, technically speaking I'm happy to facilitate :geek: ... I just think that most people will prefer to stay where they and the old content are and it will be difficult to reach critical mass.

So yeah, mixed feelings.

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puerile_polyp
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Re: Work in progress ...

Post by puerile_polyp » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:43 pm

I find it extremely hard to believe that there was any attack on Ptah's server, and I don't think we can be confident he'll keep it up. Maybe until the next time he decides to do something, people hate it, and he gets offended. You can give him the benefit of the doubt if you want, I think abandoning that ship is the smarter move. Lots of things were wrong before the site went down, and a lot of people already left because of those things. Either way you have my support if you're gonna keep this going. Let's spec out the lifeboat, and above all remain committed to the nautical analogies.

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