What are you here for?

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djm
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Re: What are you here for?

Post by djm » Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:20 am

If you look at traditional farming methods using organic inputs and crop rotation itis very clear that not having animals in the system makes it less productive. To support a family of four you require 2 acres if you have a cow and a pig, but need six acres without them.

When you factor in that most vegans are also organic advocates then it makes no sense at all.

If you wish to reduce synthetic fertiliser use to a minimum (and I say this as someone that makes fertiliser for a living), then you absolutely need to factor in mixed farming and cycling of manures.

The vegan arguments always pitch the very worst examples of factory-farmed US beef etc against the very best organic systems but that is a false dichotomy and seriously disingenuous.

What do you grow on Lakeland fells or the welsh hills if not lamb? It is extremely low impact, requires little inputs and maintains the beautiful landscape and biodiversity, Stop farming that way and see half Britains wild flower species disappear in two decades.

People in Europe and the US switching to meat free diets has led to lentils being more expensive than meat in India, making poor people poorer. Ditto the silly fad for Quinoa.

The fad for Avocado has led to whole villages in Chile having no water supply. It has led to cartels making more money from extortion in farming than from drugs in Mexico. Demand driven from veganism.

We should be aiming for high welfare low input meat production, alongside practices to reduce but not eliminate synthetic fertiliser and pesticide use. Arguments on all sides are polarised, politicised and lead to bad choices by both consumers, farmers and governments.

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Senseye
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Re: What are you here for?

Post by Senseye » Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:03 pm

djm wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:20 am
We should be aiming for high welfare low input meat production, alongside practices to reduce but not eliminate synthetic fertiliser and pesticide use. Arguments on all sides are polarised, politicised and lead to bad choices by both consumers, farmers and governments.
Totally agree.

I grew up in a small town surrounded by farms and there was nothing particularly cruel about raising livestock back then. You would see the cows in the fields grazing and/or in the barn/fenced in area in the winter. There was none of this cooping them in small pens sticking their heads in a feed trough business. Basically, farm animals had one very bad day when they were taken to the slaughterhouse, but outside of that had a pretty good life.

And while I was too young to be doing the shopping back then, I am pretty sure meat did not constitute any higher a percentage of the grocery bill (maybe less) than it does today.

The problem, as with many things, is that corporate farms and the associated greed funnels all excess profits to a small concentration of the wealthy, who appear to care about nothing but themselves.

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Re: What are you here for?

Post by Julius_Van_Der_Beak » Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:03 am

I've thought about this and figured it out. There are certain people for whom I'm really curious to learn more about what they think on various topics. I think they have a unique enough perspective that they can provide something that I can't get anywhere else.

avolkiteshvara
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Re: What are you here for?

Post by avolkiteshvara » Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:36 pm

The women!

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ashi
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Re: What are you here for?

Post by ashi » Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:15 am

May as well be direct: I am primarily here because I have watched a lot of people die in the last five years and I am desperate for any even slightly familiar names and faces anywhere I can find them.
Madrigal wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:58 am
How is veganism bad for the environment?
Certain foods common to vegan diets have a drastic, indefensible environmental impact when compared to other non-meats (e.g., almonds are a disaster and increasingly used in a wide range of questionable foods I have no interest in even trying once.) but none of this is remotely in the vicinity of the impact of large animals like cows especially with the rapidly rising meat consumption in Africa and SE Asia. These concerns are among the reasons a lot of people emphasise a "whole food plant-based" rather than a "vegan" diet, in addition to avoiding people's tedious compulsive anaphylactic reaction to the v-word.

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Madrigal
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Re: What are you here for?

Post by Madrigal » Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:33 am

ashi wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:15 am
May as well be direct: I am primarily here because I have watched a lot of people die in the last five years and I am desperate for any even slightly familiar names and faces anywhere I can find them.
Oh what the hell, when you said you lost people I didn't know you meant it in this way. That's terrible, what is the context for this? Unless you don't want to get into it, which I'd understand. :/

djm
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Re: What are you here for?

Post by djm » Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:50 pm

ashi wrote:
Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:15 am
May as well be direct: I am primarily here because I have watched a lot of people die in the last five years and I am desperate for any even slightly familiar names and faces anywhere I can find them.
Madrigal wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:58 am
How is veganism bad for the environment?
Certain foods common to vegan diets have a drastic, indefensible environmental impact when compared to other non-meats (e.g., almonds are a disaster and increasingly used in a wide range of questionable foods I have no interest in even trying once.) but none of this is remotely in the vicinity of the impact of large animals like cows especially with the rapidly rising meat consumption in Africa and SE Asia. These concerns are among the reasons a lot of people emphasise a "whole food plant-based" rather than a "vegan" diet, in addition to avoiding people's tedious compulsive anaphylactic reaction to the v-word.
Firstly I am sorry to hear you have had those problems Ashi.

You make some good points regards veganism. I favour a move towards more sustainable diets too, though I believe meat can play a role in that. Some meat and dairy production in the UK is very low impact.

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SomeInternetBloke
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Re: What are you here for?

Post by SomeInternetBloke » Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:01 am

"With a new lease on life like Andy Dufresne It's the most poetical, Nat King unforgettable Clarence 13X Allah's rhapsody from Bellevue I'm splitting atoms, spitting flames" - Jay Electronica

I've grazed around a bit with poor luck. So I'm just here to chew the cud and play in the mud. Moo!
"My favourite song from one of my favourite albums, Nena asking you to please, please let her be your pirate. So smooth and joyful, I have to listen to it three times if I listen once" - ashi

rincon
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Re: What are you here for?

Post by rincon » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:04 am

I'm here because I like to read stuff and be amongst other weirdos that understand me kinda but not really.

:cheers:

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SomeInternetBloke
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Re: What are you here for?

Post by SomeInternetBloke » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:24 am

I'm here to change the world!
Image
"My favourite song from one of my favourite albums, Nena asking you to please, please let her be your pirate. So smooth and joyful, I have to listen to it three times if I listen once" - ashi

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