Rules and all that (feedback welcome)

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TeresaJ
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Re: Rules and all that (feedback welcome)

Post by TeresaJ » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:30 am

I think the restraining order thing should not apply to public threads. But don't quote the person even in a public thread.

Actually the whole restraining order thing seems like it could get complicated and out of hand if not in itself abused, but if we do have it then I think it should not apply to public threads.

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Re: Rules and all that (feedback welcome)

Post by Julius_Van_Der_Beak » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:11 pm

TeresaJ wrote: Actually the whole restraining order thing seems like it could get complicated and out of hand if not in itself abused, but if we do have it then I think it should not apply to public threads.
Cautiously peeking my head in here to say yes to the above.

It's not like someone ever requested a restraining order against a member and then proceeded to insult their love life and intelligence, and even follow them to another forum after they were banned. (And in case people are wondering, I did report the insult to my intelligence, [since it was easier to prove than the love life stuff], to the moderators and the moderator who responded basically brushed it off and told me I was making a big deal out of nothing.) I admit I don't understand trauma so maybe that's perfectly in line with someone suffering from PTSD and inadvertently traumatized by something someone else posted.

I feel like I've given this community as a forum multiple chances. To me it seems like the old guard (largely Generation Xers but I don't want to put all of them in the same basket) is very set in their ways and highly resistant to doing what is needed to make the forum thrive (not just for myself, but for others). The evidence of this is that we started a whole new forum before, and many seemed to have some desire to not repeat the mistakes of the past, but enough people eventually fell into the old patterns anyway. If people truly want the place to thrive; they need to figure out how to make it work with us Millennial snowflakes. Speaking for myself, I'm tired of being dumped on.

People may not believe this because it may not have been obvious, but I have put a LOT of effort into making things work with this community in the past, and I've basically been shit on for my efforts. At this point, I no longer feel like I need to prove something to this community. I'm at the point where I strongly feel that they have something to prove to me. They need to prove that they are going to put in the work to not make the mistakes of the past.

I'm enjoy people who, like me (regardless of past conflicts), have a genuine interest in moving forward and making things better than the way before, and seem determined to base their identity on something other than being an asshole (which is not what INTP actually means, nor does it mean unthinkingly adhering to the norms of toxic masculinity). The thing about the forum as a whole,though, is not that I'm adverse to letting go of personal drama; it's that I think there are lots of people that don't have enough interest in changing. They can do that if they want, but it's not something I'm eager to participate in.

I'm posting all this because I feel like at least one person here wants to know why I'm reluctant to participate, and I'm not adverse to giving them an explanation.

Oh, and I created another account using one of the countless emails I created to use for my socks at INTPx after I was banned, and I can't determine which. Feel free to delete or merge those accounts.

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Madrigal
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Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:59 am

Re: Rules and all that (feedback welcome)

Post by Madrigal » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:35 pm

Julius_Van_Der_Beak wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:11 pm
I feel like I've given this community as a forum multiple chances. To me it seems like the old guard (largely Generation Xers but I don't want to put all of them in the same basket) is very set in their ways and highly resistant to doing what is needed to make the forum thrive (not just for myself, but for others). The evidence of this is that we started a whole new forum before, and many seemed to have some desire to not repeat the mistakes of the past, but enough people eventually fell into the old patterns anyway. If people truly want the place to thrive; they need to figure out how to make it work with us Millennial snowflakes. Speaking for myself, I'm tired of being dumped on.
Hi, msg_v2. Please take take this from someone who has nothing to do with running this forum. I'd like to point out you were banned under every username you ever had in the previous forum, and they were many user names. You were also banned in the forum before that. If you have not reflected on why that happened, you have some soul-searching to do. To be clear, I don't actually want to hear about it.

That said, if you are going to post here and truly want a fresh start -- and again, take this from someone who has nothing to do with running this forum -- please try to tone down the constant whinging over past moderation issues. If you simply cannot, you have another place for that which isn't here.

To bury the hatchet, then, and if you decide to stay, welcome.

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Re: Rules and all that (feedback welcome)

Post by Julius_Van_Der_Beak » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:39 pm

Madrigal wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:35 pm
Julius_Van_Der_Beak wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:11 pm
I feel like I've given this community as a forum multiple chances. To me it seems like the old guard (largely Generation Xers but I don't want to put all of them in the same basket) is very set in their ways and highly resistant to doing what is needed to make the forum thrive (not just for myself, but for others). The evidence of this is that we started a whole new forum before, and many seemed to have some desire to not repeat the mistakes of the past, but enough people eventually fell into the old patterns anyway. If people truly want the place to thrive; they need to figure out how to make it work with us Millennial snowflakes. Speaking for myself, I'm tired of being dumped on.
Hi, msg_v2. Please take take this from someone who has nothing to do with running this forum. I'd like to point out you were banned under every username you ever had in the previous forum, and they were many user names. You were also banned in the forum before that. If you have not reflected on why that happened, you have some soul-searching to do. To be clear, I don't actually want to hear about it.

That said, if you are going to post here and truly want a fresh start -- and again, take this from someone who has nothing to do with running this forum -- please try to tone down the constant whinging over past moderation issues. If you simply cannot, you have another place for that which isn't here.

To bury the hatchet, then, and if you decide to stay, welcome.
I'm not trying to conceal my identity, but simply stated, if people here don't have an issue with someone engaging in stalking and trolling behavior after they INITIATED a no contact request, I have no interest in posting here. You guys are free to continue carrying on as usual and I'll do my thing elsewhere.

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Madrigal
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Re: Rules and all that (feedback welcome)

Post by Madrigal » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:46 pm

Julius_Van_Der_Beak wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:39 pm
I'm not trying to conceal my identity, but simply stated, if people here don't have an issue with stalking and trolling behavior after someone INITIATED a no contact request, I have no interest in posting here.
I do not believe that there was any such policy as a no contact request at the other place. I think it's a good idea, but I think it would have to have a justification. In other words, if you initiate a no-contact request against someone for the simple reason they are disagreeing with you and present valid arguments against your views in every thread, I think it shouldn't be valid. I think these requests should be based on claims of harassment, stalking, trolling, etc.

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Re: Rules and all that (feedback welcome)

Post by Julius_Van_Der_Beak » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:52 pm

Madrigal wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:46 pm
Julius_Van_Der_Beak wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:39 pm
I'm not trying to conceal my identity, but simply stated, if people here don't have an issue with stalking and trolling behavior after someone INITIATED a no contact request, I have no interest in posting here.
I do not believe that there was any such policy as a no contact request at the other place. I think it's a good idea, but I think it would have to have a justification. In other words, if you initiate a no-contact request against someone for the simple reason they are disagreeing with you and present valid arguments against your views in every thread, I think it shouldn't be valid. I think these requests should be based on claims of harassment, stalking, trolling, etc.
My final word on the subject (and likely here) was that such a thing did indeed exist in at least one instance, although I suppose it was not formally called that (which is irrelevant as far as I am concerned).

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Utisz
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Re: Rules and all that (feedback welcome)

Post by Utisz » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:21 pm

TeresaJ wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:30 am
I think the restraining order thing should not apply to public threads. But don't quote the person even in a public thread.
I think that would be fine, yes. I will change the text to indicate that.
Also the name might be a bit dramatic. We need a better one. :)
Actually the whole restraining order thing seems like it could get complicated and out of hand if not in itself abused, but if we do have it then I think it should not apply to public threads.
Possibly! If it means that more members will participate on a more regular basis though, it's worth trying.
I think the main thing to avoid abuse is that it should work both ways, which is already in place.

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Utisz
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Re: Rules and all that (feedback welcome)

Post by Utisz » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:28 pm

Julius_Van_Der_Beak wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:11 pm
It's not like someone ever requested a restraining order against a member and then proceeded to insult their love life and intelligence, and even follow them to another forum after they were banned. (And in case people are wondering, I did report the insult to my intelligence, [since it was easier to prove than the love life stuff], to the moderators and the moderator who responded basically brushed it off and told me I was making a big deal out of nothing.) I admit I don't understand trauma so maybe that's perfectly in line with someone suffering from PTSD and inadvertently traumatized by something someone else posted.
The restraining order would always work both ways, so this could not happen on this forum, i.e., member A cannot opt out of interaction with member B and continue to post about member B on this forum. I guess they could continue something elsewhere, but that's not something we can control.
I feel like I've given this community as a forum multiple chances. To me it seems like the old guard (largely Generation Xers but I don't want to put all of them in the same basket) is very set in their ways and highly resistant to doing what is needed to make the forum thrive (not just for myself, but for others). The evidence of this is that we started a whole new forum before, and many seemed to have some desire to not repeat the mistakes of the past, but enough people eventually fell into the old patterns anyway. If people truly want the place to thrive; they need to figure out how to make it work with us Millennial snowflakes. Speaking for myself, I'm tired of being dumped on.
All are welcome to participate here. Maybe you can give it a chance.
Oh, and I created another account using one of the countless emails I created to use for my socks at INTPx after I was banned, and I can't determine which. Feel free to delete or merge those accounts.
Sure. Which accounts?

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Utisz
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Re: Rules and all that (feedback welcome)

Post by Utisz » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:41 pm

Madrigal wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:46 pm
I do not believe that there was any such policy as a no contact request at the other place. I think it's a good idea, but I think it would have to have a justification. In other words, if you initiate a no-contact request against someone for the simple reason they are disagreeing with you and present valid arguments against your views in every thread, I think it shouldn't be valid. I think these requests should be based on claims of harassment, stalking, trolling, etc.
I would be against having to provide a justification, as it complicates everything, slows the process down, puts more pressure on mods, and is ultimately unnecessary.

I would like to protect mods as much as possible, having a rough idea of how moderators got burnt out in the last place dealing with certain issues.

If we introduce a justification, we need to define which justifications are valid, and which are not. Then a mod (or mods) will need to review the evidence for that justification, possibly needing to review posts, PMs, ask questions, etc. Now the mod(s) will need to take sides and say, yes, X was harrassing Y, or X was stalking Y, and so on, and so forth. That is a lot of work and will create drama. Members will feel like they were not heard, or were misinterpreted. Other members will feel that "the forum" has fucked them over. Nobody outside the modbox will know the details of what actually happened, which will lead to speculation. Etc., etc.

Anyways, I don't think a justification is necessary. I agree with JVDB in that I don't see a reason why someone should be allowed to talk about or message or contact someone who has explicitly said they don't want that.

I see it like a safe-word for when members have had enough. Previously people just left the forum. This gives them another option.

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Utisz
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Re: Rules and all that (feedback welcome)

Post by Utisz » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:56 pm

Renamed "Restraining order" to "Social distancing". Also added that replies to threads/topics only affects member-only threads/topics. Of course in public threads the no-interaction rules still apply.

(The software calls threads topics so trying to phase in that term. :))

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