Watching this
Reminded to to start on the Chex Quest HD is a free download on Steam (though launches from Epic Launcher?) based on the original about 28 years ago (damn that sounds weird.)
(I noticed it seemed kind of reminiscent of a much older game, and realized it was just an updated version of one.) It's worth checking out and takes about an hour to complete (delete it immediately afterward?)
https://www.chexmix.com/chexquest/
The video above references a "cereal" (non-cereal based "cereal" made up of "Milk Protein Blend") though at 7 oz per box, you would be better off just acquiring the stuff it is based on (what's up with diets that imitate something else?)
Review: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/revi ... al-review/
And Epic Games will be giving away this game on July 18th.
Arcade Paradise (PC)
https://www.metacritic.com/game/arcade-paradise/
**************************************
3, 6s, and 9s is a reference to mathematical symmetry found in nature.
For awhile I thought I was looking at Joppa/Joppee community which has a nature preserve named after it in Texas, because it was really ghetto and seemed forgotten amongst the back waters of Dallas and seems to be a runoff from the railroad being built and connected to the community, but the video is referring to Ft Worth when it says Dallas.
(I would consider this clickbait and intentionally vague.)
605 11th St
Belle Plaine, Iowa
*******************
An active serial-killer in Austin TX? (You have to wonder about what isn't being reported or conclusive.)
What are you watching?
Re: What are you watching?
British dark comedy
Chris Morris' JAM (2000)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0240273/
Episode 5 in the last skit seems strangely prescient with regards to narcissistic glibness and how some parents act.
*************************
The reason large companies should have no incentive to acquire everything is because they can profit to justify absurd costs, while pretty much assuring you have no choice but to buy from them.
I've noticed I can't stand using Rotten Tomatoes anymore since they "updated" their website (it's as if they ensured that computer browsers operated with the limitations of a cell phone app by design,) but it seems to go even deeper with how the website influences the movie industry.
It seems the "monitor" we use in reference to computers could have originated to what inspired the nickname of the electric fridge, named in reference to the 'Monitor' battleship and how it looked.
Chris Morris' JAM (2000)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0240273/
Episode 5 in the last skit seems strangely prescient with regards to narcissistic glibness and how some parents act.
*************************
The reason large companies should have no incentive to acquire everything is because they can profit to justify absurd costs, while pretty much assuring you have no choice but to buy from them.
I've noticed I can't stand using Rotten Tomatoes anymore since they "updated" their website (it's as if they ensured that computer browsers operated with the limitations of a cell phone app by design,) but it seems to go even deeper with how the website influences the movie industry.
It seems the "monitor" we use in reference to computers could have originated to what inspired the nickname of the electric fridge, named in reference to the 'Monitor' battleship and how it looked.
Re: What are you watching?
Tourists who disappeared
The first story is clearly drug-related (and maybe something else)
https://www.instagram.com/robcan/
Also (and I'm kind of quoting a Reddit meme that shows up at the top of page 98)
42:55 behind the President of Mexico is a poster of Francisco "Pancho" Villa, the sociopathic former governor of Chihuahua Mexico and murderer of the innocent, who more or less referred American's as being "White Chinese" (basically defamatory,) and said to "hang all foreigners in this town," and when the town resisted he would proceed to kill women, children, men and elderly, and if you were a Mexican with a foreigner such as a Chinese woman they would burn them alive using oil.
If he didn't win a battle or conflict he would decided he needed to bloody his hands by killing his own soldiers.
Does that explain what is happening in Mexico?
Cops Make the Worst Discovery of Their Lives
The Kincora Pedophile Ring: Ireland's DARKEST Secret
Currently have this problem.
I suspect faulty o2 sensors (or an air leak around the secondary o2 sensor (post catalytic on driver's side, which might just imply a bad cat.) This car always had issues with insufficient burn when accelerating quickly, so it might just be driving it in "sport mode" which builds up carbon and fouls the cat.
Options (in addition to checking voltage fluctuation in the second sensor.)
https://repairpal.com/drive-cycle-issues
https://www.obd-codes.com/p0420
Possible fuel injector causing O2 misread?
https://youtu.be/VpuSKiQcW_4
Gunked PCV (and a mod suggesting drilling larger holes into the damn thing)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=yL0DIBV1hck
Replacing the sensors is probably the best option to ensure it isn't failing it, but trying to make sure the sensors need replacing seems near impossible as it's assumed the Cat Converter needs to be replaced (because they make money on installing them. . .) Numerous times it's suggested that the sensors themselves can get gunked up, especially if you try to use something like cataclean (which I've used in the past when I had this same issue show up, and it didn't work, however, it seems the solution was to have the heater turned on running full blast while revving the engine to get the exhaust to heat up, which allowed some of the airflow to improve (often a catalytic converter condition is only a byproduct of some other issue, which can be caused by engine issues contributing to it.)
I'm just trying to get the codes to register again, and it's really a pain in the ass getting to 5 miles consistently at 55-60 mph due to all the people on the road.
Places like Autozone will sell stuff that often requires return visits after you fucked up by using it.
Clearing cycles here suggests methods but also that O2 sensors or cat conv issues can cause delay in not registering (that or the ECM is messed up, because when I plugged in the crappy OBDII Centech obd2 from Harbor Freights into the car, the screen had literally reversed on the display like it had been possessed; so I don't know, as usually clearing a sensor doesn't mess up, unless what is happening is it's completely reset the ECM due to malfunctioning sensors in such as O2.
Something I could have benefited from earlier because I was doing this:
(Keep air off when doing this and don't use cruise control)
****
Let car cool and then remain in idle with start (5 min?)
35 mph and remain for 5 minutes
Drive 55-60 for 5 miles (10 minutes?)
65mph and let go of pedal to decelerate on it's own to 0 mph (1 or more times to register evap sensor.)
*****
That guy's channel is worth checking out (I swear, it's the kind of crap I've been doing for some time now, only I don't record about the stuff and post it. The making lye from wood ash is one thing I've not done, but have seen it used in BBC documentaries, only I source the sodium hydroxide from chemical supplies. Water exposure or humidity will probably render any wood ash sitting out to be rather useless, so it probably needs to be recently burned wood.)
https://www.youtube.com/@Cookingwithdrchill
Last edited by Catoptric on Fri Jul 19, 2024 1:00 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: What are you watching?
Car is back to where it was with reset (3 monitors remain and I might need to replace some sensors.)
Evap monitor could go away with refilling tank and the fluctuation could register it, or one of these might need to be replaced for it to clear it:
EVAP canister,
EVAP Purge Solenoid
EVAP Canister Vent Solenoid.
-> Those need to be checked especially if the vehicle has been on alot of dirt or gravel roads.
Revised:
N/A or INC as result of faulty readings or battery replacements. It's best to start this late at night in a relatively isolated location.
- Keep in 'DRIVE' idling 2 1/2 minutes running 'A/C' and 'REAR DEFROST' on (ONLY DURING THIS TIME)
- With nothing else activated drive to '55 MPH' with consistently slow-acceleration and hold for '3 MINUTES'
- Without breaking glide to '20 MPH' and return to 55-60 MPH at 3/4 (faster) throttle, HOLD speed for '5 MINUTES'
- Decelerate to a stop without breaking (take foot off pedal until resting stop.)
--> Always keep fuel within center bars (30-70%) and avoid using Cruise Control (some say it will prevent it from working.)
-> Alternatively (start engine from cold and drive above '50 mph for 15 min' while keeping steady w/o breaking or sudden movements.
|__> 55 MPH for '3 minutes' very consistently.
-> Alternatively cold start (ambient temps should be 11 degrees from engine coolant temps below 120 degrees requiring overnight cooling.) After doing the above and getting the car to operational temps, turn it off and resume.
|__> When in Drive, keep braking while gently revving to '1000 RPM' and hold for '6 TO 8 MINUTES' and then depress pedal for 2 minutes in IDLE. Return to a speed of 55 MPH for 10 minutes and then stop the vehicle again to idle in drive mode for 2 minutes (don't use neutral unless it's a manual transmission?)
--> INC/Incomplete codes could be the result of faulty O^2 sensors, or clogged fuel injectors (causing carbon buildup in the Cat because of excessive fuel etc,) Scan tools (OBD bluetooth to computer monitors) to detect downflow O2 irregularities can determine if the O2 sensor is "slow" or showing feedback from insufficient CC performance. Soaking catalytic converter in citric acid and then resoak in regular water might resolve it, wheras some will use Sodium Hydroxide (lye or drain cleaner) which might cause a chemical reaction with the metals used for the catalytic process and degrade it even more.) Lacquer thinner is often suggested for soaking but it might be less environmentally friendly or dangerous. Though something like Cataclean can be used in 1/4 of a fuel tank (driving for 10 miles and then refilling the tank up) they have potential to cause other issues such as damaging the engine or causing premature wear (which can cause further catalytic or engine issues if not corrected.)
Last edited by Catoptric on Sat Jul 20, 2024 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: What are you watching?
Some bad code just broke a billion Windows machines
Re: What are you watching?
I highly suggest watching this video and perhaps start around 11 minutes to see what is so weird about the whole time.
5-6 minutes notification of the shooter, WITH THE FUCKING RIFLE FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, after already having people in the Secret Service notice him with a spotting binoculars, claiming he had hidden a bag (presumably with the rifle) hence they claim they didn't know he had one?)
https://vigilante.tv/w/gESVZ1qkzoSe4uPaBkK2df
***************************
I've heard of 90s electrics but seem to have overlooked this later 70s one.
(Partly because I used a WD40 Professional degreaser spray, which even though it specifically specifies it can be used around such sensors and the catalytic converter, it probably doesn't mean directly on it, and many say to never ever use it around such equipment because it will leave it's own residue that will foul it up.) I'm currently spraying a soap and sanitizer (which usually helps with a lot of cleaning and has acids as well) to spray into the top of the catalytic converter while it's bolted. When accelerating it it seems to run much smoother, and I've been trying to get the sensors consistent enough to register that they are functioning (currently it still shows either N/A or Incompelete for the 3 that people have trouble with as mentioned here: https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176410 )
For me it seems the key takeaway is that the majority of the equipment needs to have at least optimal condition to have it register quickly while having the engine within very close temperatures to the ambient temps.
What is annoying is I can never really know if the monitor checks are supposed to be acknowledging performance conditions or if it's just some obnoxious process that is hindered by shortsighted engineering thresholds (such as requiring cruise control but also explicitly needing the car to run as instructed which can put you at risk of accidents or pissing people off on the road, hence accidents.) There were several times when the only place to allow the car to run to a crawl made me look dangerous because I had to turn the car without using brakes, on a busy intersection after a run on the highway (so about 3 minutes at 55 ona 70 mph highway, while exiting and slowing down which is still about 30 mph on a turn to loop back onto it to then accelerate up a ramp (which may or may not be good for the test since it puts more strain on the acceleration when you are supposed to most likely be better off on flat surfaces without much turns or jolts in movement which is probably why my CEL happened in the first place and why I didn't have the monitors ready after jolting it and running nasty (probably contaminated) gas from Oklahoma that looked cheap when I bought it.
It's counter-intuitive to have people driving 300 miles to achieve emissions standards when the standards are probably contrary to environmental protection since they generate more waste (especially if they are designed to most likely negatively impact people who rely on having access to transportation, who otherwise get fucked over by "progress."
Other specific processes:
UPDATE: When examining the exhaust pipes I noticed one side had a huge gash in it (probably around the same time I drove over some rock rubble and heard a loud noise, leaving a gash but no actual leak from it) but also the slip over exhaust (not a gasket?) clamp that connects the pipes from the catalytic converter, which had one bolt coming loose (though not causing any flex to the actual movement, so I just assumed it wasn't the cause of Cat inefficiencies.) Further on would park the car and noticed (after having driven it for about 50-100 miles) that water was still condensed inside and had dripped directly from where I sprayed the water/soap (and stupidly wd40 degreaser and cleaner formulated for cars and similar things but probably not ideal to spray inside to remove carbon deposits) and believe it must be coming from the catalytic converter which is one area it isn't supposed to drip from. Once the O2 sensor replacements get here I will dissassemble the manifold to try to soak citric acid (and whatever other acidic powder is in scrubbing compounds like My Cleaning Secret (Oxalic Acid.) --> As seen on TV with Chef Tony. . . https://youtu.be/oeEkNdP21U4
So I assumed it must have a leak coming from somewhere and noticed a little hole along the solder for welds (but don't believe it was leaking from the dimple) though will try this later.
Shop vac (or vacuum blow-out tube such as with an Oreck portable vacuum that can be channeled into the tailpipe which I might try later, using soap on the suspected areas (which is something I attempted to do with a sprayer bottle that I assumed would show blowing hot air around the aerosol vapor mist.) Here he uses high temp epoxy putty (JD Weld which is what I first thought of using) applied over a sand papered area.)
- J-B Weld 8297 HighHeat 500 Degree Epoxy Putty, (paste, or syringe)
- FiberFix (or any exhaust pipe) Heat Wrap
Specifically for me this might be good Fel-Pro Catalytic Converter Gaskets 61652, though simply using such compounds and retightening would probably also work.)
This video suggests using a rag as a bung in the exhaust output (possible safety issues)
https://youtu.be/wYVjkyLdID4
and another suggests (once finding the holes) to patch over them with Gasket Cement and Stove Sealer (and applying it specifically when the car is warmed and cooling down; presumably long enough to cure, as otherwise it will blow out the "patch.")
https://youtu.be/R4sO0n6GbOw
- Meeco's Red Devil Gasket Cement and Stove Sealer
Or Rutland 2.3 fl. oz. Stove and Gasket Cement Tube
Basically, it seems that just driving around isn't clearing the monitors and it took a decent amount of driving (from multiple states,) and not until after realizing the monitors didn't clear, for the P0420 to show (which could refer to either catalytic converters, probably both if it's not an exhaust leak, which it mostly likely would be since the O2 sensors would only really be affected from the gasket connection or manifold.)
Since I had a similar code in 2015 (when the car was still "new" and it went away, I'm assuming it really is the result of the exhaust since it followed after reassembling the manifold in place of the illegal-stupid-headers.) Again, I still suspect lack of driving and having old gas, as well as bad contaminated gas sold cheaply in Oklahoma, is the source of the problem. How many people drive through an interstate highway and foul their engines unknowingly, makes me wonder (though mostly it would just be cars that were already getting closer to the warranty drop-off point such as 80,000 miles or whatever time is typical to exploit for warranty "upgrades" that rarely pay off.
The biggest problem is what a pain in the ass it is to get a proper angle on the bolts to loosen and reassemble things, and usually in addition to proper hydraulic lifts, is why people spend hundreds to thousands on what would otherwise have the potential to be really cheap repairs.
An interesting thing to note is the inconsistency in what works to clear "not available" ODBII monitors, such as why they start to engage in testing emissions in the first place (rather than show "inc" for not completing the cycle.)
A state recommendation may say to 'Cold Start' then idle in park or neutral (AND NOT DRIVE WITH BRAKING) but than to drive at 50 mph for 8 minutes (not 55 for 5 minutes --> 40 mph 2 min --> 55 2min, which can also differ by saying to allow the car to coast without braking but also to accelerate more rapidly at the end,) and then just park/idle for 15 minutes (so 20 minutes idle 8 driving just above the 45 mph speed limit in most areas. How much this concerns stop and go traffic isn't emphasized.)
Cold start seems to be the main prompting, and the idling at the beginning is to get the car into a "closed loop" which basically means the gas is fully engaged for the system to function fully with the fuel injectors and the processes needed for the catalytic converter to be checked.)
I'm reluctant to use Cataclean because even though it says it can "clean injectors, etc" many who use it seem to have the potentially to damage these very things.
Also, products like Liqui Moly have things sold on Amazon that are not designed to be used in American vehicles because the gasoline standards they were made for in other countries have manganese which is the main problem, but also most all fuel and oil additives can only be labeled as scams now, since they have absolutely no benefit in modern engines (other than some products that will actually benefit such as for fuel injectors, but the more advanced stuff could easily cause damage if people don't know how to use it since they are corrosive and require specific processes.) Using grocery store gas station fuel will usually also contribute to some bad results (it seems Top Tier gas sold at Quick Trip and Costco, et al seems to be much better,) while some crappy stations will promote additives that probably don't do anything (hence lawsuits with companies like Additech.)
***
Part of my apprehension of buying any replacement catalytic converter has to do with the scumminess of the industry. People will sell V8 discarded after an "upgrade" (which could mean anything as they might have had similar emissions problems) but knowing the exhaust diameter is different would require you to replace the back exhaust "V Pipes" because they are a quarter-inch larger despite having the same manifold spacing hookup (though also probably requiring different gaskets, which might be a donut-shaped one that would be use to fill in the gap difference.) No returns on used shit being offloaded either, and many of the stuff coming out of China might be just as trustworthy as the crappy welding probably being performed by prison labor (if they aren't at risk of crafting shivs with the leftover metals. . .)
Some of the offerings (and the "best" brand being recommended by a mechanic that thought I should buy from O'Reilly, has nothing but 1 star reviews on Amazon where it's assumed they didn't get a knockoff." I almost would rather trust a $100 set of crap from China just to get past emissions if it wasn't more of a pain in the ass knowing if it would even work after the time it takes to install them; since it's not always so simple as bolting them on, with whatever irregularities.)
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/che ... erter,5808
The hypocrisy of driving hundreds of miles to get the emissions to read, might just be a problem of increasingly inefficient cars (and yet a car pre 1995 doesn't require emission checks. . . And some counties won't require any checks at all. Also a common thing to monitor live feedback of O2 sensors to determine issues with why these monitors don't clear, seems completely lost on those who work in most of these places (who have far more invested in charging labor or just getting you to buy useless crap they know nothing about.)
I did add Royal Purple Max Clean but I doubt it will do much difference. Some give up on Camaros for these issues I mentioned.
************
A pretty good channel on these topics without most of the bullshit.
His explanation of the purge valve is one of the better ones that actually explains what it does and how it affects the throttle, and why.
Also, I used electrical tape to adhere around the gas tank access rim because the gas cap was feeling loose (so perhaps the seal is shrinking up and not forming good contact.) which would give a slow response from the evap system which may affect throttle response due to vacuum integrity (similar to trying to siphon liquid when an air leak is coming from the hose; a similar thing could occur with fuel pump or evaporation of the gas.) I've noticed on occasion when starting the car (as occurred since owning it) that if the ignition is slow (possibly due to weak battery) that it will be slow to start, but it might also have occurred shortly after filling it with gas, suggesting a purge valve could be not functioning properly causing a buildup of gas emission when starting the car (rather than oxygen which will have a better chance of starting the first time.) This mostly occurred if I was kind of lazy with turning the key. You might also notice this more commonly with older vehicles which is where the stereotypical trying to start a car and a horror scene is playing out in movies.
*******************
5-6 minutes notification of the shooter, WITH THE FUCKING RIFLE FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, after already having people in the Secret Service notice him with a spotting binoculars, claiming he had hidden a bag (presumably with the rifle) hence they claim they didn't know he had one?)
https://vigilante.tv/w/gESVZ1qkzoSe4uPaBkK2df
***************************
I've heard of 90s electrics but seem to have overlooked this later 70s one.
(Partly because I used a WD40 Professional degreaser spray, which even though it specifically specifies it can be used around such sensors and the catalytic converter, it probably doesn't mean directly on it, and many say to never ever use it around such equipment because it will leave it's own residue that will foul it up.) I'm currently spraying a soap and sanitizer (which usually helps with a lot of cleaning and has acids as well) to spray into the top of the catalytic converter while it's bolted. When accelerating it it seems to run much smoother, and I've been trying to get the sensors consistent enough to register that they are functioning (currently it still shows either N/A or Incompelete for the 3 that people have trouble with as mentioned here: https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176410 )
For me it seems the key takeaway is that the majority of the equipment needs to have at least optimal condition to have it register quickly while having the engine within very close temperatures to the ambient temps.
What is annoying is I can never really know if the monitor checks are supposed to be acknowledging performance conditions or if it's just some obnoxious process that is hindered by shortsighted engineering thresholds (such as requiring cruise control but also explicitly needing the car to run as instructed which can put you at risk of accidents or pissing people off on the road, hence accidents.) There were several times when the only place to allow the car to run to a crawl made me look dangerous because I had to turn the car without using brakes, on a busy intersection after a run on the highway (so about 3 minutes at 55 ona 70 mph highway, while exiting and slowing down which is still about 30 mph on a turn to loop back onto it to then accelerate up a ramp (which may or may not be good for the test since it puts more strain on the acceleration when you are supposed to most likely be better off on flat surfaces without much turns or jolts in movement which is probably why my CEL happened in the first place and why I didn't have the monitors ready after jolting it and running nasty (probably contaminated) gas from Oklahoma that looked cheap when I bought it.
It's counter-intuitive to have people driving 300 miles to achieve emissions standards when the standards are probably contrary to environmental protection since they generate more waste (especially if they are designed to most likely negatively impact people who rely on having access to transportation, who otherwise get fucked over by "progress."
Other specific processes:
Spoiler
Show
COLD START: Begin from Cold Start, and ignition in OFF position for at least 1 hour. Ensure your Pontiac Grand Prix's fuel tank is between 1/4 and 3/4 full. Engine coolant temperature must be below 122°F and within 11°F of the ambient air temperature. Do not leave the key on prior to the cold start or the heated oxygen sensor (O2) diagnostic may not run.
IDLE TIME: Run engine (do not drive) for 2 1/2 minutes with the air conditioner on and rear defroster on. During this period the ECU will be running the Oxygen Sensor Heater self-test, Air Injection System Passive Air test, EVAP Purge "No Flow" test, Misfire Detection.
ACCELERATE: Turn off the air conditioner and rear defroster and begin driving your Grand Prix. As soon as possible apply half throttle until 55mph is reached. The ECU will now run self-tests on the Misfire Detection, Fuel Trim, and EVAP Purge Flow.
HOLD STEADY: Hold your speed steady at 55mph for three minutes. During this time the Oxygen Sensor O2 response, Air Intrusive (AIS System), EGR Flow, Purge Valve, Misfire Detection, and Fuel Trim diagnostics will be performed.
DECELERATE: During this step slowly let off the accelerator pedal. Do not brake or shift in order to slow down. It is important to let your Pontiac coast along gradually slowing down to 20 mph. The ECU will once again self-test the EGR System, EVAP Purge System and Long Term Fuel Trims.
ACCELERATE: Go ahead and accelerate again at 3/4 throttle until 55-60mph is reached. This will perform the same self tests as during the first acceleration step.
HOLD STEADY: Hold steady speed once again. This time at 55mph for five minutes. During this time, in addition to running the self-tests as during the first HOLD STEADY step, the ECU will perform the catalyst monitor diagnostics. If the catalyst (Catalytic Converter) is marginal or the battery has been disconnected, it may take 5 complete driving cycles to determine the state of the catalyst,or in order to Complete the CAT Monitor.
DECELERATE: This will perform the same diagnostics as in the first Deceleration. Remember not to press the brakes or shift gears (don't press the clutch if equipped).
This ends the drive cycle. Performing the drive cycle on your Pontiac Grand Prix at least twice will ensure all monitors run, including the EVAP monitor, and your vehicle is ready for the smog check.
Completing Emission Monitors Individually
Catalyst Monitor (CAT):
Prerequisite: No trouble codes present, Intake Air Temperature (IAT) above 32 Degrees (F), Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) is above 167 Degrees (F); Mass Air Flow sensor is indicating greater than 15 gm/s, engine load is below 63% and steady, engine speed is below 3000 RPM.
1. Idle vehicle 5 minutes (achieve closed loop)
2. Drive 5 min at steady speed above 55 mph
3. Drive 2 min at steady 40 mph
4. Drive 2 min at steady 55 mph
EGR Monitor (EGR):
Prerequisite: No trouble codes present, Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) is above 75 Degrees (F); barometric pressure (BARO) above 72kPa.
1. Idle vehicle 5 minutes (achieve closed loop)
2. Accelerate and drive for 1 min at steady speed above 50 mph
3. Slow vehicle down to 20 mph. Do not use brake clutch, or shift gears.
4. Repeat steps two and three 5 times.
GM/Chevy/Pontiac run their EGR monitor during the deceleration portion of the drive cycle.
Evaporative Monitor (EVAP):
Prerequisite: No trouble codes present, Fuel tank between 1/4 and 3/4 full.
1. Drive 5 min at steady speed between 30 and 60 mph
2. Stop vehicle and idle engine for 4 minutes.
3. Turn engine off. Remove ignition key.
The ECU will run the EVAP Monitor once the engine has been shut down and ignition turned off.
O2 Sensor Monitor (O2):
Prerequisite: No trouble codes present, Intake Air Temperature (IAT) above 32 Degrees (F); Engine Control Temperature (ECT) is above 167 Degrees (F)
1. Idle vehicle 4 minutes (achieve closed loop)
2. Drive 3 min at steady speed above 50 mph
3. Drive 2 min at steady 40 mph
4. Drive 2 min at steady 50 mph
IDLE TIME: Run engine (do not drive) for 2 1/2 minutes with the air conditioner on and rear defroster on. During this period the ECU will be running the Oxygen Sensor Heater self-test, Air Injection System Passive Air test, EVAP Purge "No Flow" test, Misfire Detection.
ACCELERATE: Turn off the air conditioner and rear defroster and begin driving your Grand Prix. As soon as possible apply half throttle until 55mph is reached. The ECU will now run self-tests on the Misfire Detection, Fuel Trim, and EVAP Purge Flow.
HOLD STEADY: Hold your speed steady at 55mph for three minutes. During this time the Oxygen Sensor O2 response, Air Intrusive (AIS System), EGR Flow, Purge Valve, Misfire Detection, and Fuel Trim diagnostics will be performed.
DECELERATE: During this step slowly let off the accelerator pedal. Do not brake or shift in order to slow down. It is important to let your Pontiac coast along gradually slowing down to 20 mph. The ECU will once again self-test the EGR System, EVAP Purge System and Long Term Fuel Trims.
ACCELERATE: Go ahead and accelerate again at 3/4 throttle until 55-60mph is reached. This will perform the same self tests as during the first acceleration step.
HOLD STEADY: Hold steady speed once again. This time at 55mph for five minutes. During this time, in addition to running the self-tests as during the first HOLD STEADY step, the ECU will perform the catalyst monitor diagnostics. If the catalyst (Catalytic Converter) is marginal or the battery has been disconnected, it may take 5 complete driving cycles to determine the state of the catalyst,or in order to Complete the CAT Monitor.
DECELERATE: This will perform the same diagnostics as in the first Deceleration. Remember not to press the brakes or shift gears (don't press the clutch if equipped).
This ends the drive cycle. Performing the drive cycle on your Pontiac Grand Prix at least twice will ensure all monitors run, including the EVAP monitor, and your vehicle is ready for the smog check.
Completing Emission Monitors Individually
Catalyst Monitor (CAT):
Prerequisite: No trouble codes present, Intake Air Temperature (IAT) above 32 Degrees (F), Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) is above 167 Degrees (F); Mass Air Flow sensor is indicating greater than 15 gm/s, engine load is below 63% and steady, engine speed is below 3000 RPM.
1. Idle vehicle 5 minutes (achieve closed loop)
2. Drive 5 min at steady speed above 55 mph
3. Drive 2 min at steady 40 mph
4. Drive 2 min at steady 55 mph
EGR Monitor (EGR):
Prerequisite: No trouble codes present, Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) is above 75 Degrees (F); barometric pressure (BARO) above 72kPa.
1. Idle vehicle 5 minutes (achieve closed loop)
2. Accelerate and drive for 1 min at steady speed above 50 mph
3. Slow vehicle down to 20 mph. Do not use brake clutch, or shift gears.
4. Repeat steps two and three 5 times.
GM/Chevy/Pontiac run their EGR monitor during the deceleration portion of the drive cycle.
Evaporative Monitor (EVAP):
Prerequisite: No trouble codes present, Fuel tank between 1/4 and 3/4 full.
1. Drive 5 min at steady speed between 30 and 60 mph
2. Stop vehicle and idle engine for 4 minutes.
3. Turn engine off. Remove ignition key.
The ECU will run the EVAP Monitor once the engine has been shut down and ignition turned off.
O2 Sensor Monitor (O2):
Prerequisite: No trouble codes present, Intake Air Temperature (IAT) above 32 Degrees (F); Engine Control Temperature (ECT) is above 167 Degrees (F)
1. Idle vehicle 4 minutes (achieve closed loop)
2. Drive 3 min at steady speed above 50 mph
3. Drive 2 min at steady 40 mph
4. Drive 2 min at steady 50 mph
UPDATE: When examining the exhaust pipes I noticed one side had a huge gash in it (probably around the same time I drove over some rock rubble and heard a loud noise, leaving a gash but no actual leak from it) but also the slip over exhaust (not a gasket?) clamp that connects the pipes from the catalytic converter, which had one bolt coming loose (though not causing any flex to the actual movement, so I just assumed it wasn't the cause of Cat inefficiencies.) Further on would park the car and noticed (after having driven it for about 50-100 miles) that water was still condensed inside and had dripped directly from where I sprayed the water/soap (and stupidly wd40 degreaser and cleaner formulated for cars and similar things but probably not ideal to spray inside to remove carbon deposits) and believe it must be coming from the catalytic converter which is one area it isn't supposed to drip from. Once the O2 sensor replacements get here I will dissassemble the manifold to try to soak citric acid (and whatever other acidic powder is in scrubbing compounds like My Cleaning Secret (Oxalic Acid.) --> As seen on TV with Chef Tony. . . https://youtu.be/oeEkNdP21U4
So I assumed it must have a leak coming from somewhere and noticed a little hole along the solder for welds (but don't believe it was leaking from the dimple) though will try this later.
Shop vac (or vacuum blow-out tube such as with an Oreck portable vacuum that can be channeled into the tailpipe which I might try later, using soap on the suspected areas (which is something I attempted to do with a sprayer bottle that I assumed would show blowing hot air around the aerosol vapor mist.) Here he uses high temp epoxy putty (JD Weld which is what I first thought of using) applied over a sand papered area.)
- J-B Weld 8297 HighHeat 500 Degree Epoxy Putty, (paste, or syringe)
- FiberFix (or any exhaust pipe) Heat Wrap
Specifically for me this might be good Fel-Pro Catalytic Converter Gaskets 61652, though simply using such compounds and retightening would probably also work.)
This video suggests using a rag as a bung in the exhaust output (possible safety issues)
https://youtu.be/wYVjkyLdID4
and another suggests (once finding the holes) to patch over them with Gasket Cement and Stove Sealer (and applying it specifically when the car is warmed and cooling down; presumably long enough to cure, as otherwise it will blow out the "patch.")
https://youtu.be/R4sO0n6GbOw
- Meeco's Red Devil Gasket Cement and Stove Sealer
Or Rutland 2.3 fl. oz. Stove and Gasket Cement Tube
Basically, it seems that just driving around isn't clearing the monitors and it took a decent amount of driving (from multiple states,) and not until after realizing the monitors didn't clear, for the P0420 to show (which could refer to either catalytic converters, probably both if it's not an exhaust leak, which it mostly likely would be since the O2 sensors would only really be affected from the gasket connection or manifold.)
Since I had a similar code in 2015 (when the car was still "new" and it went away, I'm assuming it really is the result of the exhaust since it followed after reassembling the manifold in place of the illegal-stupid-headers.) Again, I still suspect lack of driving and having old gas, as well as bad contaminated gas sold cheaply in Oklahoma, is the source of the problem. How many people drive through an interstate highway and foul their engines unknowingly, makes me wonder (though mostly it would just be cars that were already getting closer to the warranty drop-off point such as 80,000 miles or whatever time is typical to exploit for warranty "upgrades" that rarely pay off.
The biggest problem is what a pain in the ass it is to get a proper angle on the bolts to loosen and reassemble things, and usually in addition to proper hydraulic lifts, is why people spend hundreds to thousands on what would otherwise have the potential to be really cheap repairs.
An interesting thing to note is the inconsistency in what works to clear "not available" ODBII monitors, such as why they start to engage in testing emissions in the first place (rather than show "inc" for not completing the cycle.)
A state recommendation may say to 'Cold Start' then idle in park or neutral (AND NOT DRIVE WITH BRAKING) but than to drive at 50 mph for 8 minutes (not 55 for 5 minutes --> 40 mph 2 min --> 55 2min, which can also differ by saying to allow the car to coast without braking but also to accelerate more rapidly at the end,) and then just park/idle for 15 minutes (so 20 minutes idle 8 driving just above the 45 mph speed limit in most areas. How much this concerns stop and go traffic isn't emphasized.)
Cold start seems to be the main prompting, and the idling at the beginning is to get the car into a "closed loop" which basically means the gas is fully engaged for the system to function fully with the fuel injectors and the processes needed for the catalytic converter to be checked.)
I'm reluctant to use Cataclean because even though it says it can "clean injectors, etc" many who use it seem to have the potentially to damage these very things.
Also, products like Liqui Moly have things sold on Amazon that are not designed to be used in American vehicles because the gasoline standards they were made for in other countries have manganese which is the main problem, but also most all fuel and oil additives can only be labeled as scams now, since they have absolutely no benefit in modern engines (other than some products that will actually benefit such as for fuel injectors, but the more advanced stuff could easily cause damage if people don't know how to use it since they are corrosive and require specific processes.) Using grocery store gas station fuel will usually also contribute to some bad results (it seems Top Tier gas sold at Quick Trip and Costco, et al seems to be much better,) while some crappy stations will promote additives that probably don't do anything (hence lawsuits with companies like Additech.)
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Part of my apprehension of buying any replacement catalytic converter has to do with the scumminess of the industry. People will sell V8 discarded after an "upgrade" (which could mean anything as they might have had similar emissions problems) but knowing the exhaust diameter is different would require you to replace the back exhaust "V Pipes" because they are a quarter-inch larger despite having the same manifold spacing hookup (though also probably requiring different gaskets, which might be a donut-shaped one that would be use to fill in the gap difference.) No returns on used shit being offloaded either, and many of the stuff coming out of China might be just as trustworthy as the crappy welding probably being performed by prison labor (if they aren't at risk of crafting shivs with the leftover metals. . .)
Some of the offerings (and the "best" brand being recommended by a mechanic that thought I should buy from O'Reilly, has nothing but 1 star reviews on Amazon where it's assumed they didn't get a knockoff." I almost would rather trust a $100 set of crap from China just to get past emissions if it wasn't more of a pain in the ass knowing if it would even work after the time it takes to install them; since it's not always so simple as bolting them on, with whatever irregularities.)
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/che ... erter,5808
The hypocrisy of driving hundreds of miles to get the emissions to read, might just be a problem of increasingly inefficient cars (and yet a car pre 1995 doesn't require emission checks. . . And some counties won't require any checks at all. Also a common thing to monitor live feedback of O2 sensors to determine issues with why these monitors don't clear, seems completely lost on those who work in most of these places (who have far more invested in charging labor or just getting you to buy useless crap they know nothing about.)
I did add Royal Purple Max Clean but I doubt it will do much difference. Some give up on Camaros for these issues I mentioned.
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A pretty good channel on these topics without most of the bullshit.
His explanation of the purge valve is one of the better ones that actually explains what it does and how it affects the throttle, and why.
Also, I used electrical tape to adhere around the gas tank access rim because the gas cap was feeling loose (so perhaps the seal is shrinking up and not forming good contact.) which would give a slow response from the evap system which may affect throttle response due to vacuum integrity (similar to trying to siphon liquid when an air leak is coming from the hose; a similar thing could occur with fuel pump or evaporation of the gas.) I've noticed on occasion when starting the car (as occurred since owning it) that if the ignition is slow (possibly due to weak battery) that it will be slow to start, but it might also have occurred shortly after filling it with gas, suggesting a purge valve could be not functioning properly causing a buildup of gas emission when starting the car (rather than oxygen which will have a better chance of starting the first time.) This mostly occurred if I was kind of lazy with turning the key. You might also notice this more commonly with older vehicles which is where the stereotypical trying to start a car and a horror scene is playing out in movies.
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HighlyIrregular II
- Posts: 560
- Joined: Thu May 26, 2022 10:50 pm
- Formerly: BarII
Re: What are you watching?
People in the comments of this video are making a big deal about how much more polite people were way back in 1984, yada yada yada. That's one McDonalds in a certain place and time of day and it's not so different! I don't think this video shows how different society was. The menu behind the cashiers was more dull and there was a smoking section. That's pretty much it.
Re: What are you watching?
I was looking up some of the locations that seem forgotten in Japan, where people no longer buy properties that seem "old-fashioned." If you look at South Korea's development, it becomes pretty clear that Japan has far more rural areas (almost reminding of the contrast between North and South Korea.)
https://www.facebook.com/TokyoGaijinMode/
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Regarding the OBD monitors I've been posting about, I'll be changing all the O2 sensors, but I'm wondering if my air intake is making it difficult for the system to clear the monitors, considering how things like the catalytic converter are becoming less efficient. It could just be that it will take much longer to clear, but it does annoy me (enough to where I might just not use the car much and will have to delay getting the inspection and leave the car parked away from view, assuming some random call is placed to have the car towed for appearing "abandoned" even if it looks anything but (I don't know what happens, as it could just be if you get pulled over while driving it, which at that point it might be a car get's towed for driving without emissions approval (or just fined.) I haven't really looked into it much because I would rather not assume I know how society works, since too much of it will contradict itself.
The hypocrisy is that older vehicles as well as certain vehicles that could just as well have similar emissions don't require any approval other than basic safety inspection (which even still is going away now.) When mentioning the changes in legislation to people that work at the inspection stations they were either denying some of the changes occurring in other counties or literally didn't know about which cars require inspection.
Part of the problem is I didn't get OEM sensors, so it might pose some issues (all the while I've been reluctant to change the cats due to realizing any replacement would probably be shit, so too is the dilemma of sensors.) Most likely, replacing the sensors wouldn't change anything on the results. . .
Basically, the battery could well just be weaker than it needs to be, but I suspect in his replacing some components, swapping the battery helped the ECM to refresh it's data log and reestablish it's data module.
An important thing to note is this process which I did similarly but it was shown to leave the car in idle after driving the process, whereas here it mentions shutting the car off completely right after completing some of it (and letting the car coast to a slow stop, which has been rather annoying trying to do recently.)
From one of the comments in that video:
Spoiler
Show
From a cold start, idle 1-2 minutes.
Drive with light throttle to highway. Stop on side of on ramp and idle, in drive, foot on brake for 2 minutes.
Accelerate to freeway speed 55-65 mph and maintain speed for at least 5 miles. (do not use cruise control)
Coast to a stop on the side of freeway in drive. Do not apply brake until speed is below 20 mph.
Once stopped, continue to hold brake for 2 minutes while still in drive.
Shift to Park, shut off ignition and remove key.
I ran through the procedure 3 times unsuccessfully before realizing I wasn't completing the last step. I was simply driving away without shutting everything down. When I ran through all the steps above as listed, all monitors were ready when I restarted.
Drive with light throttle to highway. Stop on side of on ramp and idle, in drive, foot on brake for 2 minutes.
Accelerate to freeway speed 55-65 mph and maintain speed for at least 5 miles. (do not use cruise control)
Coast to a stop on the side of freeway in drive. Do not apply brake until speed is below 20 mph.
Once stopped, continue to hold brake for 2 minutes while still in drive.
Shift to Park, shut off ignition and remove key.
I ran through the procedure 3 times unsuccessfully before realizing I wasn't completing the last step. I was simply driving away without shutting everything down. When I ran through all the steps above as listed, all monitors were ready when I restarted.
I'll probably be doing this a few more times but I've also come rather close to having (or causing?) accidents when doing this because of the need to not pay attention to driving.
I suspect in his replacing some components, swapping the battery helped the ECM to refresh it's data log and reestablish it's data module?
Any slight interruption or odd acceleration will prevent it from completing fully, but also it's important to idle from before (to get the O2 sensors into proper temps,) and retain a consistent performance during the drive time, while also removing the keys from the ignition so that it completes that cycle.
Some suggest it's important to start the car from a "cold start" (which for GM is about 11 degrees from the temperature of the engine which only shows about 120 Fahrenheit reading on the coolant temps, though is presumably lower than that,) may have something to do with how the fuel in the tank (hence Evap) is pressurized to send vapor into the ignition chamber (and if it isn't pressurized, this could be caused by the fuel cap not sealing correctly (and something I tried to do is use electrical tape around the lip of the tank to tighten the cap, since it was feeling a little loose. Other possibilities are solenoids and perhaps even the carbon filter used to stabilize the vapors, (EDIT: but also the PCV valve is something I just checked, which takes about a minute if you know where to look, though it should be the rear passenger or drivers side corner of the engine, and noticed it drastically needed cleaning, so I used throttle body cleaner sprayed through the center which should have a small ball cylinder that can be heard when shaken which is needed to move freely within it for the gas vapors to move properly through the system, and if not functioning properly can result in bad timing chains as well as other issues such as poor idling. . . so perhaps a major oversight in emissions monitors?)
Most fuel additives are completely useless (though things like Marvel Mystery Oil are something that could be used for oil 10 miles before changing it, and no longer.) Royal Purple Max Clean seems to clean the fuel injectors and has noticeable improvement, and using 'Top Tier' fuel seems to be suggested as better than alternatives (though this might just be a bias from those lured in by marketing?)
I can see the battery being an issue in general when it comes to these monitors, which may be why the process often suggests turning off anything but the engine when running these tests, and leaving the windows open in place of using the AC (though usually the cold start warm up suggests leaving everything on including the rear defroster to allow the ecm to register the system's vitality.)
I'm still not sure, but I will adapt the turning the car off after the 2 minute idling, and try to turn off the car before starting the main drive down the highway. This will still probably be a bit annoying, though I'll possibly update this post if I confirm the process works.
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I already had an issue which required replacing the timing chain (I just assumed GM fucked up with using crappy timing chains, which is why a similar engine with the Cadillac was sued) and the PCV valve seems to contribute to some of the faults that cause premature wear, hence why they changed the design afterwards.
I had an oil catch can but removed it because it seemed like other risks were being introduced (people sued a company that was heavily involved in an online forum for the Chevy cars, because they claim their engine was damaged from the catch can (which is supposed to have a one-way valve, but the designed seemed to create a vacuum issue that disrupted proper fuel and oil performance, hence the engine issue.)
Autozone also sells the breather gas caps which are supposedly illegal unless off road. I had one of those and removed it too, and am starting to question the entire aftermarket industry.
Instead of modding the PCV valve, I am certainly going to pay closer attention to it because it was pretty nasty (and I sprayed Throttle Body Cleaner into the holes, which should free up the small ball bearing inside and make it function better.