Covid news and views

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ashi
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Re: Covid news and views

Post by ashi » Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:54 pm

Part 1: getting vaccinated is pointless because they won't protect against the variants anyway

Part 2: the delta variant is ravaging areas with low vaccination rates

Good job, guys. 👍🏼

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Catoptric
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Re: Covid news and views

Post by Catoptric » Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:23 am

Covid likely created in lab
https://fb.watch/v/1g6aPKOyx/
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starjots
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Re: Covid news and views

Post by starjots » Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:44 am

Cases and deaths heading up again in US. It's enough to dent my general faith in the human race (note the word faith)*. In many nations you can't get a shot, here you just go into the damn drug store and they'll give it to in right away. But hundreds of people would rather not and are dying every day.

*To be fair, maybe I should say many Americans.

**Yes, I know there are breakthrough cases including some deaths.

***I'm thinking about going back to more serious masks for big box stores since we have so many willing incubators of disease walking around.

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Senseye
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Re: Covid news and views

Post by Senseye » Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:57 am

If shots are that readily available, and presumably effective, then everyone with any common sense should have partaken and be immune (at least from a serious case).

As such, Darwin is now in charge. No sympathy for any unvaccinated by choice from me at this point.

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Utisz
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Re: Covid news and views

Post by Utisz » Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:02 am

Catoptric wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:23 am
Covid likely created in lab
https://fb.watch/v/1g6aPKOyx/
I think we're in different social media bubbles. I never see videos like that recommended. :ph34r:

A lot of what he says is true, and not a lot of what he says is strictly false, but the video is skewed. He gains credibility in the first half, but in the second half, in particular, he skews heavily towards suggesting a specific origin, he conflates two theories, and he overreaches again and again.

One theory, which is plausible, is that it was a natural virus that leaked from a lab (the lab apparently had shitty safety protocols). The second, which the scientific consensus (as I understand it; I'm not an expert :whistle:) is against, is that it is manmade. The media conflate these two theories all the time. The title of the video is "Was COVID Created in a Lab?", which is a leading question, and one that is never addressed. In fact, there are ample experts who have come out against this theory, which he never even addresses. According to them, if it was manmade, it involves some sort of unknown technology. Again, he never even addresses this.

In terms of stuff where he is overreaching, or just plain pulling it out of his ass:
  • The idea that the only way we can find out is by investigating on the ground in China is nonsense. We have the virus, we know about the spike protein, and we've made vaccines for it. We also know how gain of research typically is conducted. It is quite possible that experts, just by looking at the virus, can see if it has been "doctored" in some way or not.
  • Regarding the "researcher who made up his mind before he came here", the point above applies, he had access to the virus, it's a shitty question from the journalist, he cuts the response short, and the guy presenting does not prove anything by referencing confirmation bias. Just because it exists, doesn't mean the guy is guilty of it.
  • The idea that we have not found the coronavirus in an animal being some sort of "proof" against the animal hypothesis is kinda horseshit. Bats in China are known to carry hundreds of coronaviruses, as per the "bat lady's" job of going in and taking samples to catalogue the viruses.
  • He makes a crappy appeal to authority to prove that the "investigation was BS" by quoting the head of the WHO saying that the investigation was not "extensive enough". The quote shown on the video but not read out loud continues "Further data and studies will be needed to reach more robust and conclusions." There is a huge difference between a BS investigation and an inconclusive one.
So in summary, to me, the guy flushes his own credibility down the toilet. He just comes across as someone competent in farming likes on Facebook.
starjots wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:44 am
Cases and deaths heading up again in US. It's enough to dent my general faith in the human race (note the word faith)*. In many nations you can't get a shot, here you just go into the damn drug store and they'll give it to in right away. But hundreds of people would rather not and are dying every day.
Found this video informative about the anti-vaxxer movement:



It's long but gets across the point pretty effectively that Andrew Wakefield is a huge douche.
Senseye wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:57 am
If shots are that readily available, and presumably effective, then everyone with any common sense should have partaken and be immune (at least from a serious case).

As such, Darwin is now in charge. No sympathy for any unvaccinated by choice from me at this point.
True, but the problem is that there are people who cannot be vaccinated, and rely on healthy people to get vaccinated to try to reach higher levels of herd immunity. So the Drago approach of "if he dies, he dies" is not the full story.

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jyng1
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Re: Covid news and views

Post by jyng1 » Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:53 am

starjots wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:44 am
***I'm thinking about going back to more serious masks for big box stores since we have so many willing incubators of disease walking around.
I read a study from the UK which said their FFP3 (N99) masks are nearly 100% effective at preventing disease in Covid ICU wards.

I was watching something about the Olympics the other day with some Japanese footage and every single person was wearing a mask properly. Just after that they had something from Fiji and someone was talking to a nurse with their mask around their chin...

I dunno; I'm betting on more than 600 deaths in Fiji (pop ~900,000). IFR of 0.15% gives 1350 deaths and they've delivered 419,000 vaccination doses so far. The hospitals are currently overrun.

We've got a bit of an issue with RSV virus giving babies a bit of a hard time at the moment. I think a bit of rebound effect considering we didn't have it last year and last years kids as well as this years have got it now. It's keeping ED facilities pretty busy with quite a few babies getting put on respirators.

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Senseye
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Re: Covid news and views

Post by Senseye » Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:24 pm

Utisz wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:02 am
True, but the problem is that there are people who cannot be vaccinated, and rely on healthy people to get vaccinated to try to reach higher levels of herd immunity. So the Drago approach of "if he dies, he dies" is not the full story.
I would like to see this quantified. From what I can tell, most of the people who "can't be vaccinated" probably can be vaccinated. It's just that clinical trials haven't yet been conducted on them. Children for example. Children seem to be at very low risk from serious illness from covid so I don't worry about them too much.

Pregnant/breastfeeding women are another group and again the issues is probably they could be vaccinated, but no trial data. Guess they will have to isolate until they feel safe.

There is probably a small group of allergic and/or immunocompromised who may never be able to be vaccinated. One in a million? One in a 100K? Sucks to be them I suppose, but I suspect their issues are much broader than just covid exposure.

Not that I am pro anti-vaxxer or anything. But at a certain point people are just going to be stupid, and you just have to let the chips fall where they may.

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Catoptric
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Re: Covid news and views

Post by Catoptric » Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:44 pm

Utisz wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:02 am
Catoptric wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:23 am
Covid likely created in lab
https://fb.watch/v/1g6aPKOyx/
I think we're in different social media bubbles. I never see videos like that recommended. :ph34r:

A lot of what he says is true, and not a lot of what he says is strictly false, but the video is skewed. He gains credibility in the first half, but in the second half, in particular, he skews heavily towards suggesting a specific origin, he conflates two theories, and he overreaches again and again.
*continues*
I tend to agree; and that it's a bit like the claims regarding Lyme disease and a certain bacteria that is thought to be tested (and thought by some to be created) in the secretive Plum Island off of Long Island in NYC, which had existed prior to them ever testing it (which partly explains why some of the documents covering the subject are still classified.)

https://www.newsweek.com/pentagon-weapo ... on-1449737

Most anything in modern media is clickbait spam, and are misdirections from the actual content, if not outright disingenuous, though it is kind of easy to doubt China's integrity for the truth as they are known to make people disappear under mysterious circumstances (Chen Qiushi, Ren Zhiqiang, etc.) and perhaps it's due to the nature of how fear and control is maintained in China to keep the society "in check.

The 'Bat Woman' Virologist had been taking a low profile as well and was believed to be missing for some time, and alleges that the virus did not get accidentally released from the lab as they had been tested for Covid and weren't the source of an outbreak (however, as I recall and as the video shows, 3 of the researchers did in fact get symptoms of Covid in 2019. . .) A lot of the spread of the lab theory is in large part popularized by Trump, though I suspect 'Bat Woman' was doing what she was supposed to say.

Trump ‘owes us an apology.’ Chinese scientist at the center of COVID-19 origin theories speaks out
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07 ... speaks-out

Also the lab had some known flaws in their safety precautions, and it's assumed that no natural source of the virus has been found which would explain the origins of the spread of it.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-wor ... -credible/
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starjots
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Re: Covid news and views

Post by starjots » Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:34 pm

jyng1 wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:53 am
starjots wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:44 am
***I'm thinking about going back to more serious masks for big box stores since we have so many willing incubators of disease walking around.
I read a study from the UK which said their FFP3 (N99) masks are nearly 100% effective at preventing disease in Covid ICU wards.

I was watching something about the Olympics the other day with some Japanese footage and every single person was wearing a mask properly. Just after that they had something from Fiji and someone was talking to a nurse with their mask around their chin...
The near 100% effective number is encouraging, although that's N99, I have plenty of N95. Layered on top of Moderna's 98 to 99% effectiveness, the results should be 1 - (.05 x .02) = 99.9% effective. Now that might sound paranoid, but 1 in 1000 for a breakthrough case of a very serious disease is what I'd call moderate risk.

My mate mentioned that she actually wouldn't mind catching it now (vaccinated also), assuming it would be minor and give her further protection. There might be merit in that idea too, especially since we are going to a wedding in two months where the chance of exposure is higher.

Note: We've seen almost every relative and friend we have since being vaccinated and travelled 9000 miles on the road and eaten out a dozen times. But this next phase is concerning. Article on what I was alluding to in prior post.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ource=digg

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Chaselation
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Re: Covid news and views

Post by Chaselation » Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:46 am

I have not been here in some time. I was a bit surprised that this group as a whole seems very accepting of the claims regarding Covid vaccines. I was expecting a more nuanced debate to be taking place.

The research I've done has landed me in a hell no position with regards to the poke. I will be sourcing safe fairly well proven drugs (with almost zero research dollars) that appear to be doing a much better job.

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