Critical Race Theory

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TeresaJ
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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by TeresaJ » Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:01 am

My understanding is that the discipline as a whole is driven by ideology much more so than by actual data and rigorous analysis.

In concept it’s not a bad thing to look at but in practice at this moment I think it’s a mess.

And I agree that it’s a convenient way for those in power to appear to be more egalitarian without actually changing the structure of how they operate.

Ultimately I think that because people are emotional, social creatures, societies are not really inclined to look at this in any sort of rational way. You either get racism or guilt/victimhood complexes or both.

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Chaselation
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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by Chaselation » Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:37 am

Hello all that might remember me. Amazed to see this group continuing in some form. I still cannot do the spelling.

@ the OP. This is Amero centric. Only white people can be racist.. until an Asian talks smack then they can be too. Oh wait a black guy disagrees...uncle Tom.. they just have very bad latent racist ideas that are not challenged. Every pee-on whos live isn't going well has a place to point their blame.

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Chaselation
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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by Chaselation » Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:18 am

Sorry if this is a repost.


djm
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Formerly: djm

Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by djm » Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:53 pm

Chaselation wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:18 am
Sorry if this is a repost.

Hadn't seen it and was interesting. Thanks for posting it.

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Ferrus
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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by Ferrus » Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:04 pm

Chaselation wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:37 am
@ the OP. This is Amero centric.
One of the consequences of the internet has been that everyone is living in America's (or rather California's) culture war.

It strikes me that the long term destabilising effects of this in society mean there will probably be the inevitable many countries in Europe could lead to many European countries, even between themselves, slowly moving towards the Russian/Chinese model of regionalised internets that have limits of information flow between them. There are signs of this already happening.
Ex falso, quodlibet

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C.J.Woolf
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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by C.J.Woolf » Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:33 pm

I'd heard of it but didn't know anything about it, so off to Wikipedia I went.

My bullshit sensors tingled at the fact that CRT has been a thing in academia since the 1970s and it's being mentioned outside of academia only recently. (The Critical Theory CRT is based on dates back to the 1930s in Germany.) Is CRT being applied in the real world, or is it the work of the right-wing propaganda/outrage machine?

I have a question: Does CRT have any influence outside of academia? Has it changed any policies or made any laws?

I agree with this statement:
As the word "critical" suggests, both theoretical frameworks are rooted in critical theory, a social philosophy which argues that social problems are influenced and created more by societal structures and cultural assumptions than by individual and psychological factors. [Wikipedia]
That explains the phenomenon of "racism without racists". Social structures and culture have a lot of inertia, and most of us are not aware of how much they affect us.

avolkiteshvara
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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by avolkiteshvara » Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:10 pm

It's complete bullshit. And very dangerous. Think the Great Leap Forward.

Much of it was based on post-modern and marxist philosophies in the that say life has no meaning. The only thing that matters is power. You must overthrow your oppressors.

If you looks the current advocates of CRT(Kendi, DiAngelo), they're laughing their way to the bank.

They've figured out there's a plethora of guilty middle/upper class white people who are scared to death of being labeled a biggot. They take advantage of it.

This guys sums it up pretty well:

On the surface political correctness seems like a way of standing up for victims, be they women, minorities, gays, trans-sexuals or whatever. In reality, however, it is about creating victims. It sets out to repudiate the hierarchies and distinctions embedded in our traditional way of life. People in the grip of political correctness are in search of the one who has sown the hatred and rejection that they sense all around. They are experts in taking offence, regardless of whether offence has been given. They refrain from addressing the arguments of the one whom they accuse, and when they are offended by a remark they do not hesitate to take it entirely out of context, so as to dress it up as a crime. As judge, prosecutor and jury they are the voice of an unquestionable righteousness. Their goal is to intimidate their opponents, by exposing them to public humiliation. Like the Nazis and communists whose methods they copy, they impose their worldview through fear.

-Roger Scruton

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Utisz
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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by Utisz » Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:49 am

djm wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:13 pm
Stop and search figures are higher due to the problem of knife crime in London being far higher in those communities. Most stabbings are carried out amongst members of these communities, and the main beneficiaries of increasing searching are those communities. It is clearly not a racist policy, it is driven by the crime as it should be.
The stats show that if you are specifically black, you are more than 8 times more likely to be stopped and searched (in England and Wales) than if you are white (and British). It is true that the stats do not adjust or apply regression analysis to address factors such as a higher proportion of black people living in London, for example, but it seems difficult to wave away such an observation entirely as being explainable by some other correlating factor. And whatever that hypothetical factor might be in turn seems to be highly correlated by race, so depending on your specific claim, you would then need to show that that factor is not the result or legacy of systematic racism in the UK.
djm wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:13 pm
As for pay gap, you would expect first-generation immigrant populations to earn less than established populations as people enter on bottom pay scales and have to work up them. This is same in every country and is not evidence of racism structural or otherwise.
The regression analysis in the latter two columns accounts for profession, qualifications, and the third column only includes those born in the UK (i.e., it explicitly excludes the first-generation immigrants you mention, so no language barrier, educated in the UK, etc.). As such, it should be comparing "like with like" in terms of people working in the same profession, with the same qualifications, born in Britain, educated in Britain, etc.
You already noted some minorities earn more than white British, is this racist? If not then why is it evidence of racism the other way around?
In the non-UK-born column, only Irish Whites fare slightly better than British whites. But the UK-born column also adjusts for language barrier, etc., so probably it's the more "reliable". Of the three UK-born minorities faring better than British Whites, we have Irish Whites, White and Asian, and Indian (−2%). There are five ethnicities mentioning Blacks, however. All of the them fare considerably worse (+5-15%) than British whites, whether they come from Africa or the Caribbean.

I don't think that these ethnicity pay gaps are entirely explained or explainable by systematic racism. It is a complex issue with many factors. But when there's a large pay gap after adjusting for occupation, highest qualification level, age, sex, marital status, working pattern, disability status, working in the public or private sector, geography, and whether they have children or not, I think it's not unreasonable to suggest that it is evidence for systematic, or endemic racism, or the very least the legacy of such.

avolkiteshvara
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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by avolkiteshvara » Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:40 am

Utisz wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:49 am


I don't think that these ethnicity pay gaps are entirely explained or explainable by systematic racism. It is a complex issue with many factors. But when there's a large pay gap after adjusting for occupation, highest qualification level, age, sex, marital status, working pattern, disability status, working in the public or private sector, geography, and whether they have children or not, I think it's not unreasonable to suggest that it is evidence for systematic, or endemic racism, or the very least the legacy of such.
Was this actually done. Or are you just speaking hypothetically?

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Utisz
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Re: Critical Race Theory

Post by Utisz » Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:05 am

avolkiteshvara wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:40 am
Utisz wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:49 am


I don't think that these ethnicity pay gaps are entirely explained or explainable by systematic racism. It is a complex issue with many factors. But when there's a large pay gap after adjusting for occupation, highest qualification level, age, sex, marital status, working pattern, disability status, working in the public or private sector, geography, and whether they have children or not, I think it's not unreasonable to suggest that it is evidence for systematic, or endemic racism, or the very least the legacy of such.
Was this actually done. Or are you just speaking hypothetically?
This was actually done by the Office for National Statistics in the UK.

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