Run-up to WW3

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Senseye
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Re: Run-up to WW3

Post by Senseye » Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:44 pm

That study just goes to show nobody should get any of their news off of twitter. Opinions on their friends lunch or a concert, fine. Ignore the rest. Or just take a pass on twitter in general.

Russia could probably swing the bot count in their favor but I suspect they have chased most of their IT talent out of the country. Or mobilized them. Can't code bots from the Ukrainian forests.

A pro Ukraine world view in the bot-o-sphere is a pleasant surprise though. Ukraine is clearly in the right and Russia in the wrong in this conflict and I usually expect social media to get it all backwards. One could see in the UN vote who stands with Putin - Belarus, Nicaragua, North Korea and Syria. Quite the cabal. So yeah, 80% of twitter bots should be anti-Russian (at least). 95% of actual humans should be anti-Russian with regards to this conflict.

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Ferrus
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Re: Run-up to WW3

Post by Ferrus » Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:43 pm

puerile_polyp wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:20 am
I Idefinitely think that the current world order is one of elites plundering regions of the globe to nobody's benefit but their own in the short term.
Right so you want to return to a paleolithic hunter-gatherer tribal system without elites or power struggles. Except in Russia for some reason. Thanks for confirming your troubled relatiin with reality.
Ex falso, quodlibet

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puerile_polyp
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Re: Run-up to WW3

Post by puerile_polyp » Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:52 pm

Senseye wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 4:44 pm
That study just goes to show nobody should get any of their news off of twitter. Opinions on their friends lunch or a concert, fine. Ignore the rest. Or just take a pass on twitter in general.

Russia could probably swing the bot count in their favor but I suspect they have chased most of their IT talent out of the country. Or mobilized them. Can't code bots from the Ukrainian forests.

A pro Ukraine world view in the bot-o-sphere is a pleasant surprise though. Ukraine is clearly in the right and Russia in the wrong in this conflict and I usually expect social media to get it all backwards. One could see in the UN vote who stands with Putin - Belarus, Nicaragua, North Korea and Syria. Quite the cabal. So yeah, 80% of twitter bots should be anti-Russian (at least). 95% of actual humans should be anti-Russian with regards to this conflict.
About half of Americans get their news from social media, and I think they're the half that's ahead in staying informed. The alternative is trusting fewer and more centralized institutions. Every author has an agenda, so it's important to get info from diverse and opposing viewpoints if you want to be able to paint a more accurate picture for yourself.

In theory the internet should be a breakthrough in allowing people to stay truly informed, and in many ways it is, but without efforts made to protect it and preserve principles which could make it a great marketplace of ideas, it's being used as a tool of mass manipulation by corporations, states, and other organizations with agendas and resources.

Anyway, I think it's very naive to see Ukraine as clearly in the right. It's obvious to me that this is another proxy war between West and East. For years there has been escalations on both sides, going so far back that it never really stopped since the cold war. I know it makes many people happy to believe that we live on the side of Good and the other side is the axis of evil, just as it makes many people happy to believe in a loving God, but I just can't.
Ferrus wrote:
Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:43 pm
Right so you want to return to a paleolithic hunter-gatherer tribal system without elites or power struggles. Except in Russia for some reason. Thanks for confirming your troubled relatiin with reality.
Well, "The industrial revolution and its consequences..."

Go ahead mock me as an extremist. We're living in a world where 70% of animals have disappeared from the planet in the last 50 years. Where the ocean will contain more plastic than fish within 30 years. And we're just marching closer to nuclear annihilation because most people are so alienated from reality that all of this is just words on a page, numbers, pieces on a game board.

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jyng1
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Re: Run-up to WW3

Post by jyng1 » Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:23 am

puerile_polyp wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:52 pm
About half of Americans get their news from social media, and I think they're the half that's ahead in staying informed.

Anyway, I think it's very naive to see Ukraine as clearly in the right. It's obvious to me that this is another proxy war between West and East.
Since you're so informed, tell us why you think this is a proxy war? It started in 2014 when Igor Girkin and his "Little Green Men" took over Crimea after the confusion resulting from the Revolution of Dignity. Where were the West's proxies in Crimea and the Donetsk and Luhansk rather than the thousands of Russian regular troops?

A proxy war triggered by Yanukovych fleeing to Russia after his second revolution (the first where his election was supported by the incumbent and his opposition suffered dioxin poisoning in "mysterious circumstances" and there were extensive internal and external reports of widespread corruption, voter intimidation and electoral fraud. The second revolution after he was accused of setting up a government department to siphon $70 billion from the Ukrainian treasury and send it to Switzerland... (not to mention ignoring the majority vote by the RADA to sign the Europe/Ukraine agreement and instead signing an agreement with Russia).

Just wondering where the CIA operatives were in the Revolution of Dignity when there were photos taken of the Alpha Unit of the SBU gearing up with sniper rifles and body armour just before 100 protestors and Berkut were shot in the Maidan and the CIA have always considered Kiev to be FSB territory? How come it was RT and Moscow's UN Ambassador Vitaly Churkin who were mainly claiming it was the CIA but have been unable to provide evidence?

Surely if Kiev was FSB territory Russia would have been able to provide a significant amount of evidence of CIA involvement?
Last edited by jyng1 on Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Catoptric
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Re: Run-up to WW3

Post by Catoptric » Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:51 am

Israeli Strike Targeted Iranian Drone Assembly Site Near Damascus, Syrian Rights Monitor Says
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-new ... b0384f0000




https://funvizeo.com/video/links-2-3-4-7ebc5fe8556c0e22
https://funvizeo.com/video/they-are-com ... e608c47ff3



Just today (10/27)
Last edited by Catoptric on Thu Oct 27, 2022 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Senseye
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Re: Run-up to WW3

Post by Senseye » Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:59 pm

puerile_polyp wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:52 pm
Anyway, I think it's very naive to see Ukraine as clearly in the right. It's obvious to me that this is another proxy war between West and East. For years there has been escalations on both sides, going so far back that it never really stopped since the cold war. I know it makes many people happy to believe that we live on the side of Good and the other side is the axis of evil, just as it makes many people happy to believe in a loving God, but I just can't.
Well, we are all entitled to our own opinion. However, I would respond I think it is equally naive to wrap what seems obvious to me to be a clear case of a narcissistic psychopath (Putin) who is simply killing for greed and his own ego in some complex miasma of cold war politics simply because cold war politics have been going on for years.

The former USSR (now Russia) is a failed state. They aren't really much of an economic or political threat (i.e. communism) to anyone any more. As such the cold war as far as Russia goes was basically over (outside of Russia going wacko with their nukes). The old sleeping dog was napping until Putin stole Crimea and the west let him do it. So he thought he could steal more. This is simply a case of criminal thug rising to power and behaving like an out of control brat. He simply needs to be stopped.

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Re: Run-up to WW3

Post by puerile_polyp » Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:31 pm

jyng1 wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:23 am
Since you're so informed, tell us why you think this is a proxy war? It started in 2014 when Igor Girkin and his "Little Green Men" took over Crimea after the confusion resulting from the Revolution of Dignity. Where were the West's proxies in Crimea and the Donetsk and Luhansk rather than the thousands of Russian regular troops?
A proxy war triggered by Yanukovych fleeing to Russia after his second revolution (the first where his election was supported by the incumbent and his opposition suffered dioxin poisoning in "mysterious circumstances" and there were extensive internal and external reports of widespread corruption, voter intimidation and electoral fraud. The second revolution after he was accused of setting up a government department to siphon $70 billion from the Ukrainian treasury and send it to Switzerland... (not to mention ignoring the majority vote by the RADA to sign the Europe/Ukraine agreement and instead signing an agreement with Russia).

Just wondering where the CIA operatives were in the Revolution of Dignity when there were photos taken of the Alpha Unit of the SBU gearing up with sniper rifles and body armour just before 100 protestors and Berkut were shot in the Maidan and the CIA have always considered Kiev to be FSB territory? How come it was RT and Moscow's UN Ambassador Vitaly Churkin who were mainly claiming it was the CIA but have been unable to provide evidence?

Surely if Kiev was FSB territory Russia would have been able to provide a significant amount of evidence of CIA involvement?
[/quote]

Here is some evidence for you

https://wikispooks.com/wiki/2014_Ukrain ... an_snipers

https://eadaily.com/en/news/2015/04/20/ ... an-snipers

https://www.businessinsider.com/cia-and ... ine-2014-5

That's just about Maidan specifically. As far as why I think this is a proxy war, there are a million reasons for that. It certainly didn't just start up out of nowhere in 2014, for example the quibbling over the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty goes back at least seven years before that. You can easily trace the chain of events back to the 90s when Russia started building pipelines and NATO began to worry about the exact situation they are in now: https://web.archive.org/web/20110720032 ... -R1508.pdf

The current protests in Iran are another CIA op btw
Senseye wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:59 pm
Well, we are all entitled to our own opinion. However, I would respond I think it is equally naive to wrap what seems obvious to me to be a clear case of a narcissistic psychopath (Putin) who is simply killing for greed and his own ego in some complex miasma of cold war politics simply because cold war politics have been going on for years.

The former USSR (now Russia) is a failed state. They aren't really much of an economic or political threat (i.e. communism) to anyone any more. As such the cold war as far as Russia goes was basically over (outside of Russia going wacko with their nukes). The old sleeping dog was napping until Putin stole Crimea and the west let him do it. So he thought he could steal more. This is simply a case of criminal thug rising to power and behaving like an out of control brat. He simply needs to be stopped.
Of course Russia is an economic threat. Europe is experiencing the brunt of this as we speak. It's like you're just not paying attention to what's going on or what has happened in the past, and just absorbing this frankly childish outlook where the good guys of the world are fighting yet another cartoonishly evil villain with no rational motives other than a desire to increase suffering.

It feels like 2003 all over again. I might as well be back there yelling at everyone about how stupid it is to believe in that WMD nonsense. It's not gonna matter what any of us says, there will be endless war to feed the MIC.

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Catoptric
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Re: Run-up to WW3

Post by Catoptric » Fri Oct 28, 2022 9:16 am

Russia’s belief in Nato ‘betrayal’ – and why it matters today
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... ters-today


A 1986 Tom Clancy novel envisioned a Russia-provoked World War 3 – here's how it ended
https://www.insider.com/tom-clancy-russ ... ine-2022-3

A 1978 book (The Third World War: August 1985 and subsequent 1982 book update called WW3:Untold Story) pretty much was adapted into the story by Tom Clancy.
The Third World War: The Untold Story
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third ... told_Story

The book Hunt for the Red October was based on a Naval dissident in the 1970s (apparently Tom Clancy had a classified showing at the White House, as basis for the novel was apparently discussed, as the real story was still kept secret for another decade.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh0N3iG-7Uc

Similarly, many Russian soldiers are fed up with Putin and have been sabotaging from the beginning of the war (and the chain of command lie to Putin about their progress and act as "yes men.")
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/31/russian ... -says.html
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jyng1
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Re: Run-up to WW3

Post by jyng1 » Fri Oct 28, 2022 9:49 am

puerile_polyp wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:31 pm
jyng1 wrote:
Mon Oct 24, 2022 1:23 am
Since you're so informed, tell us why you think this is a proxy war? It started in 2014 when Igor Girkin and his "Little Green Men" took over Crimea after the confusion resulting from the Revolution of Dignity. Where were the West's proxies in Crimea and the Donetsk and Luhansk rather than the thousands of Russian regular troops?
A proxy war triggered by Yanukovych fleeing to Russia after his second revolution (the first where his election was supported by the incumbent and his opposition suffered dioxin poisoning in "mysterious circumstances" and there were extensive internal and external reports of widespread corruption, voter intimidation and electoral fraud. The second revolution after he was accused of setting up a government department to siphon $70 billion from the Ukrainian treasury and send it to Switzerland... (not to mention ignoring the majority vote by the RADA to sign the Europe/Ukraine agreement and instead signing an agreement with Russia).

Just wondering where the CIA operatives were in the Revolution of Dignity when there were photos taken of the Alpha Unit of the SBU gearing up with sniper rifles and body armour just before 100 protestors and Berkut were shot in the Maidan and the CIA have always considered Kiev to be FSB territory? How come it was RT and Moscow's UN Ambassador Vitaly Churkin who were mainly claiming it was the CIA but have been unable to provide evidence?

Surely if Kiev was FSB territory Russia would have been able to provide a significant amount of evidence of CIA involvement?
Here is some evidence for you

https://wikispooks.com/wiki/2014_Ukrain ... an_snipers

https://eadaily.com/en/news/2015/04/20/ ... an-snipers

https://www.businessinsider.com/cia-and ... ine-2014-5

That's just about Maidan specifically. As far as why I think this is a proxy war, there are a million reasons for that. It certainly didn't just start up out of nowhere in 2014, for example the quibbling over the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty goes back at least seven years before that. You can easily trace the chain of events back to the 90s when Russia started building pipelines and NATO began to worry about the exact situation they are in now: https://web.archive.org/web/20110720032 ... -R1508.pdf

The current protests in Iran are another CIA op btw
Senseye wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:59 pm
Well, we are all entitled to our own opinion. However, I would respond I think it is equally naive to wrap what seems obvious to me to be a clear case of a narcissistic psychopath (Putin) who is simply killing for greed and his own ego in some complex miasma of cold war politics simply because cold war politics have been going on for years.

The former USSR (now Russia) is a failed state. They aren't really much of an economic or political threat (i.e. communism) to anyone any more. As such the cold war as far as Russia goes was basically over (outside of Russia going wacko with their nukes). The old sleeping dog was napping until Putin stole Crimea and the west let him do it. So he thought he could steal more. This is simply a case of criminal thug rising to power and behaving like an out of control brat. He simply needs to be stopped.
puerile_polyp wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:31 pm
Of course Russia is an economic threat. Europe is experiencing the brunt of this as we speak. It's like you're just not paying attention to what's going on or what has happened in the past, and just absorbing this frankly childish outlook where the good guys of the world are fighting yet another cartoonishly evil villain with no rational motives other than a desire to increase suffering.

It feels like 2003 all over again. I might as well be back there yelling at everyone about how stupid it is to believe in that WMD nonsense. It's not gonna matter what any of us says, there will be endless war to feed the MIC.

Honestly, is that what you got out of your "evidence". You provided an article that quotes a far right Polish politician with a long list of controversies, one of which is a list of the conspiracies he endorses, endorsing a conspiracy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janusz_Korwin-Mikke

The other two were dubious in their relevance. You think Western Intelligence agencies wouldn't be involved when the Russian Military and Intelligence services are heavily involved in a democratic country which is attempting to move closer to Europe and further away from Russia. The evidence is overwhelming that FSB Colonel Igor Girkin and his Spetnaz "Little Green Men" forcefully annexed Crimea and from there, the Donbas against the will of the local population. He's been quoted saying it himself; it's not in dispute. He was sacked because he shot down MH17 killing 290 Dutch and Australian citizens with a Russian Buk missile (the Russian artillery unit was tracked by Bellingcat travelling from Russia to Ukraine and back). He currently has a $100,000 reward for his capture posted by the Ukrainians (crowd funded) who call him a terrorist.

Seems naive in the extreme, particularly considering the National Guard have been heavily involved in training Ukrainians (in Ukraine) with one fighter pilot with the California Air National Guard, Swertfager who has, by his count, 73 Ukraine entry stamps in his passport over 20 years.

The maidan protests involved a large range of groups but was overwhelmingly a grass roots protest involving thousands of people. You think the CIA managed to pull that off without any actual evidence of their participation?

Someone would have to have been seriously sucking on Putins teat to believe that.

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jyng1
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Re: Run-up to WW3

Post by jyng1 » Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:55 am

Andriy Derkachthe People's Deputy of Ukraine of the III-IX convocations has been declared wanted and the Ukrainian authorities are seeking his arrest. During the pre-trial investigation, it was established that the People's Deputy received at least $567,000 from the law enforcement and intelligence agencies of the Russian Federation for subversive activities against Ukraine, including discrediting Ukraine on the international stage, deterioration of diplomatic relations with the United States of America, and as well as the complications of Ukraine's integration into the European Union and the North Atlantic Alliance.

I'd be interested in seeing evidence of Ukrainians being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for doing the same for the CIA (considering this is a proxy war...).

There's certainly been a few prominent Ukrainians prosecuted for treason...

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