starjots wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 29, 2022 9:59 am
puerile_polyp wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:31 pm
It feels like 2003 all over again. I might as well be back there yelling at everyone about how stupid it is to believe in that WMD nonsense. It's not gonna matter what any of us says, there will be endless war to feed the MIC.
It doesn't feel like 2003 to me. In 2003 we were swept into the false narrative of attacking Iraq because they had something to do with 9/11 followed by the WMD carrot. We got a bunch of countries to back us and did a regime change with the overall idea of remolding the Middle East in our own image. It was a mistake, and IMO, a shameful episode in US history.
It seems more like 1990. In that case, one country invaded another, dumped babies out of incubators, and made a play to go from regional to global power by controlling a huge share of the world's oil supply. We put together a coalition, rolled their asses out of Kuwait, and stopped. It was, IMO, precisely the right response. Maybe the fact I took part in that action has something to do with my opinion, but it achieved it's limited objectives.
In 2022, again, we have a country trying to assert itself as a global power by invading another country and committing a host of war crimes along the way. We put together a coalition and -indirectly- support the invaded country with the limited objective (Ukraine's stated objective) of rolling their ass out of Ukraine.
Anybody who thought that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 was just really, really not paying attention. Which was, and is, a whole lot of people. There was a whole lot of war propaganda, people were amped up, our "leaders" pointed to someone and said "that's the bad guy", and most people didn't feel like putting more thought into it than that, plain and simple. It happens over and over again throughout history.
While I'm sure you served in the military with character, I believe your view of the Gulf War is extremely simplistic and naive. Saddam had been working closely with US intelligence for years - USA provided support for his notorious chemical weapons attacks https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/26/ex ... ssed-iran/
Saddam spoke with the US and was given the green light to invade Kuwait. https://www.workers.org/2021/01/54037/
USA had been preparing to do this since the late 80s when they realized USSR was collapsing. The whole point was to devastate Iraq, which they did first with a massive carpet bombing campaign (200,000 civilian casualties) and then by crippling the country with sanctions that killed over a million more, primarily children.
Now whatever you say about CIA this and that seem irrelevant to me. If Ukraine was just a western proxy for mischief against Russia, it would have folded like a wet napkin when Russia invaded.* Remember, the attack on Kiev (Kyiv?) was repulsed before any significant western aid was rendered.
That isn't even close to true, is it? Significant western aid has been given for years. Officially about three billion dollars between 2014 and the start of 2022. Do you remember the controversy over Trump supposedly withholding some of that aid in exchange for political favors? And the CIA having operations in the region for many years seems quite relevant. I would bet money that the Antonov Airport was defended by men with US training, US equipment and US intelligence support.
The Ukrainians are fighting because they see themselves as Ukrainians, not Russians, and Vladamir Putin's opinion on who they are doesn't mean jack shit.
The fact is that a significant number of Ukrainians do see themselves as Russian and have been fighting for years to separate Donbas. They say that the Ukrainians in Kyiv have been oppressing them and committing war crimes.
If you think that's just propaganda, ask yourself why you'll question the other side's propaganda but not your own. Do you know that Ukraine has long been considered one of the most corrupt countries in the world, and the most corrupt in Europe? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine
Do you know that Joe Biden's son served on the board of the largest gas company in Ukraine? Joe was accused of withholding aid to Ukraine on his son's behalf, but claimed it was to force the Ukrainians to fire a corrupt prosecutor.
I think if you spent more time reading into things critically you would have a much more suspicious and cynical view of the Western agenda.
*If you want to excoriate US foreign policy for supporting hollow regimes, there are ample modern historical examples. The two that come to mind for me are Vietnam and Afghanistan.
Those both took a long time to look like the huge wastes of life and money that they're seen as today. We spent years being told otherwise and most people believing it. And years before that with the CIA there stirring shit up secretly. And they learned from some of their mistakes but their motives remain the same: Endless War to feed the MIC.
Senseye wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:45 pm
Re: Clare Daly.
Read this on wiki about her:
In late January 2022, Daly described the Russian troop build up on the Ukrainian border as being "clearly defensive" and believed there is "no evidence that Russia has any desire to invade Ukraine, it would be of no benefit to them".
This statement alone convinces me Daly is a moron. I believe in Russian and China she would be known as a 'useful idiot'. I always wonder why these pro authoritarian types never emigrate to the countries they seem to admire.
What she said in the clip I posted is the relevant part and I really don't give a shit that you found an instance of this person also being wrong about something else on a different occasion. It's just a way for you to avoid acknowledging the truth of what she says in that clip.
Also hilarious that you're pulling out "useful idiot" and making yourself the unironic neo-McCarthyist stereotype.
jyng1 wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 30, 2022 2:43 am
Is that what you call evidence of the CIA funding a revolution?
"Omidyar Network is a social change venture that works to bring about structural changes that will fundamentally shift the systems that govern our daily lives".
"Omidyar Network is committed to supporting a collaborative, open, and effective funding community. We publish our investments, financial statements, and points of view".
How tech oligarch Pierre Omidyar funds regime-change networks and partners with CIA cutouts
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/02/20/pier ... a-cutouts/
CIA has operated via NGOs for years now. OSI, USAID, NED, countless others. This has been common knowledge for a very long time.