AAA: Ask America Anything

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HighlyIrregular
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Re: AAA: Ask America Anything

Post by HighlyIrregular » Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:46 am

Utisz wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:28 am
What are conversations about money like in the U.S.? Do y'all talk about how much money you make? When making small talk, do you ask people what they do for a living? Would you ask how well it pays?
On the subway or in McDonalds, no small talk except maybe if there's an incident like a pipe bursts or the ice cream machine explodes and you're sharing a counter with someone, someone may comment on it. I was sitting at my favorite table, like a counter with stools that gets shared with other people, and a Chinese guy asked if the seat opposite me was taken (I think he just pointed) and I said no (I think I just shook or nodded my head and pointed) and he sat. When I was finished and crumpling up the wrapper or whatever he asked if I was leaving, just to be polite and make conversation. I just said yes. Asking if someone's leaving or making any kind of small talk with a stranger in that situation is unusual.

Another time, a Hispanic guy came in to charge his phone and was upset when they wouldn't turn on the charger for him. They only do it for customers. When the employee left I said something to explain a possible reason for the policy, and he went on about something and hinted at possible racism. That was kind of normal for the situation, but the racism theory was over the top.

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HighlyIrregular
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Re: AAA: Ask America Anything

Post by HighlyIrregular » Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:57 am

Hmm...you didn't really ask about that, did you...I don't know who you're imagining making small talk with, but salary is pretty much off limits. Maybe "they pay better than..." is acceptable.

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Utisz
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Re: AAA: Ask America Anything

Post by Utisz » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:11 am

HighlyIrregular wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:46 am
On the subway or in McDonalds, no small talk except maybe if there's an incident like a pipe bursts or the ice cream machine explodes and you're sharing a counter with someone, someone may comment on it. I was sitting at my favorite table, like a counter with stools that gets shared with other people, and a Chinese guy asked if the seat opposite me was taken (I think he just pointed) and I said no (I think I just shook or nodded my head and pointed) and he say. When I was finished and crumpling up the wrapper or whatever he asked if I was leaving, just to be polite and make conversation. I just said yes. Asking if someone's leaving or making any kind of small talk with a stranger in that situation is unusual.
Of course y'all not gonna make small talk in the subway or McDonalds. But what about being second in line for tickets to a concert? Or being at the zoo with a random stranger witnessing a zebra taking a huge dump?

Americans abroad tend to be really chatty, in my experience/prejudice. I'm surprised there isn't a small talk culture over there. Unless I'm working with a biased sample or something. When I was in the U.S., I remember folks being chatty, though mostly I was dealing with service workers and foreign nationals. I remember vividly a whole conversation between a checkout girl and folks who were living there in some 24 hour pseudo-pharmacy about how eager I was to try Pabst Blue Ribbon.
Another time, a Hispanic guy came in to charge his phone and was upset when they wouldn't turn on the charger for him. They only do it for customers. When the employee left I said something to explain a possible reason for the policy, and he went on about something and hinted at possible racism. That was kind of normal for the situation, but the racism theory was over the top.
Let the dude change his phone, jeez. The coal/telecommunication companies have a hard enough time as it is.
Hmm...you didn't really ask about that, did you...I don't know who you're imagining making small talk with, but salary is pretty much off limits. Maybe "they pay better than..." is acceptable.
But if you don't talk to anyone else about these things, how do y'all not know whether or not you're getting short-changed?

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HighlyIrregular
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Re: AAA: Ask America Anything

Post by HighlyIrregular » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:23 am

Utisz wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:11 am
But if you don't talk to anyone else about these things, how do y'all not know whether or not you're getting short-changed?
Oh, workplace chat I'm not sure about but I imagine employees at low level jobs discuss it. Executives, IDK. Salaries at a certain level could be all over the place I imagine. Low level people are more easily replaced and more likely to get a standard salary. I don't think a McDonalds checkout guy is going to be negotiating his pay with anyone. Higher level employees would probably be more "proper" and less likely to have that conversation. But I'm not sure.

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puerile_polyp
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Re: AAA: Ask America Anything

Post by puerile_polyp » Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:28 pm

I'm open with people about how much I make and sometimes that makes them uncomfortable. People here are trained to keep that private. I think that makes us more vulnerable to exploitation.

I have to fight the feeling of embarrassment when saying what I make, and remind myself that my income has nothing to do with my worth as a person, even if it largely determines my social standing.

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Madrigal
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Re: AAA: Ask America Anything

Post by Madrigal » Wed Nov 10, 2021 12:31 am

In Argentina they will ask you point blank. I think they are used to educational/cultural/professional levels not necessarily reflecting directly on salary levels.

Professionals are used to being shat on, taken for granted, and once in a while participating in a national brain drain. You can take pride/find worth in your expertise or what you do, or your place in the community, and still earn shit. They're two different things. It's like people are socialized not to see it as their fault, I think. In a country with a history of devaluations and hyperinflation, there isn't much shame attached to earnings. Frustration, yes. Shame? Not usually; maybe in some richer circles that put a lot of stock in flaunting what they own. Third world rich people are worse in this sense than first world rich people, their classism is a lot more cartoonish, IMO.

Anyway, in the 80s you could have a prestigious job and still see your salary reduced to the value of a café au lait with croissants. (It's pretty standard for the price of a café au lait with croissants to be regarded as a benchmark for how bad inflation is at any given time in Argentina.)

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Ferrus
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Re: AAA: Ask America Anything

Post by Ferrus » Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:47 am

Among Catalans I get the strong suspicion people deliberately tell you they earn less than you do so they don't feel under social pressure to spend money they don't want to spend. People here are very careful with money. I remember being scolded by a Catalan for not looking at the prices of melons before buying them as I was apparently buying expensive premium ones. This tightness is almost a running joke in the rest of Spain.

https://www.thelocal.es/20210429/why-do ... ng-stingy/
Ex falso, quodlibet

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Madrigal
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Re: AAA: Ask America Anything

Post by Madrigal » Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:43 pm

Ferrus wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:47 am
Among Catalans I get the strong suspicion people deliberately tell you they earn less than you do so they don't feel under social pressure to spend money they don't want to spend. People here are very careful with money. I remember being scolded by a Catalan for not looking at the prices of melons before buying them as I was apparently buying expensive premium ones. This tightness is almost a running joke in the rest of Spain.

https://www.thelocal.es/20210429/why-do ... ng-stingy/
Oh, wow, just one more reason not to like Catalans. You know, it totally makes sense. All these Mediterreanean cultures that like making a show of abundance are usually very friendly and likeable people. Stingyness I find is a spiritual problem.

Food-related things my Spanish grandparents used to say:
Si hay miseria, que no se note. (If there is poverty, let it not show) This is a typical phrase you say when discussing the price of octopus, which you just bought.
A la necesidad hay que correrla con abundancia. (One must chase necessity with abundance) This is what you say in the kitchen when you're making a lot of food for the guests.

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Ferrus
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Re: AAA: Ask America Anything

Post by Ferrus » Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:56 am

Madrigal wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:43 pm
Oh, wow, just one more reason not to like Catalans. You know, it totally makes sense. All these Mediterreanean cultures that like making a show of abundance are usually very friendly and likeable people. Stingyness I find is a spiritual problem.

Food-related things my Spanish grandparents used to say:
Si hay miseria, que no se note. (If there is poverty, let it not show) This is a typical phrase you say when discussing the price of octopus, which you just bought.
A la necesidad hay que correrla con abundancia. (One must chase necessity with abundance) This is what you say in the kitchen when you're making a lot of food for the guests.
I mean, I think the Catalans are 'Mediterreanean' in the same way the French are 'Mediterreanean'... and despite lack of experience supposedly the northern Italians too, which makes sense as the Catalan areas were historically part of France. All are somewhat of a mix of northern and southern Europe influences that lack the openness you get in the south of Spain or the south of Italy.

This taste for abudence is why the Spanish, in my experience, have this inferiority complex with the French, who they think look down on them as vulgar because of their preference for elegant minimalism.
Ex falso, quodlibet

starla
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Re: AAA: Ask America Anything

Post by starla » Thu Nov 11, 2021 7:58 pm

Utisz wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:28 am
What are conversations about money like in the U.S.? Do y'all talk about how much money you make? When making small talk, do you ask people what they do for a living? Would you ask how well it pays?
You almost always ask people what they do for a living, you almost never talk about how much people make. It's a touchy subject here. I would wager that my family is more open in this regard than most. As kids we always knew how much our parents made, and my parents have always know about how much I'm making. rhinosaur, on the other hand, was raise in a "kids shouldn't have to worry about money" household and his parents only talked about money behind closed doors. Plus, how can you pretend to be rich in your overpriced ugly t-shirt with BALENCIAGA printed in block letters across the chest if every one knows you're making $45k/yr? But yes, what do you do for a living is one of the very first questions you would ask a new acquaintance. I gather this would be considered rude or odd in other countries. I have no idea what kinds of things people talk about with new acquaintances outside the US.

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