Are people really like this or does my coworker have a mental problem

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starjots
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Re: Are people really like this or does my coworker have a mental problem

Post by starjots » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:13 am

Now all you need is for your coworker to start throwing around jargon like value-added, moving forward, and low hanging fruit. Surely this jargon is ubiquitous in all bureaucracies (jesus that's a hard word to spell).

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SomeInternetBloke
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Re: Are people really like this or does my coworker have a mental problem

Post by SomeInternetBloke » Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:58 pm

edit: I really wasn't trying to be rude. my mind was playing tricks on me. I couldn't see what I wanted to see. anyway, I know that feel gur. :wink: <_<
"My favourite song from one of my favourite albums, Nena asking you to please, please let her be your pirate. So smooth and joyful, I have to listen to it three times if I listen once" - ashi

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Spartan26
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Re: Are people really like this or does my coworker have a mental problem

Post by Spartan26 » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:08 am

Madrigal wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:29 pm
To me it's disturbing to even imagine that I'd put my name on something that was done wrong by request. If a client wants to have something done wrong, they'd have to ask someone else to do it. I mean I would go over their head if they just don't understand after an explanation.

Pointing it out means you were there, and you don't like seeing mistakes. Have some pride ffs.
Giving somebody exactly what they ask for is sometimes the best and final resort to show someone how wrong they are. That is personal pride. You are dying to prove just how stupid/irrational/impossible/contradictory/nonsensical their request is and no matter how subtle or blunt you are with them, they don't get it. Your name's on the work. Maybe only one or two other people in the entire world know this but it still matters to you. So when push comes to shove and you don't want the people who'll ultimately be seeing the work to be trashing it internally, you show the megalomaniac requestor just how wrong they are by giving them what they said to the T, so they have to deal with the consequence.

"This is what you said, I even asked you about it here, and you reiterated that that's what you wanted."

When I say those words it is the most liberating feeling when it comes to working on projects. Sad but liberating. I didn't want to have to do that, but liberating. When I have to show them that they were wrong the whole time, they are left with two options: 1) Admit they were wrong and humbly step aside and defer to me to let me do things how I think they should go, which makes for a much quieter, hassle-free work environment or 2) Get mad but direct the anger at anyone but me and then pay me out, thank me for my service, and send me on my way early. Not exactly a burned bridge but not the way I'd like things to go down cuz really there's not coming back. But ultimately it's for the best cuz I get my money without the fear of getting stiffed or having to do way more than is worth it is out of the way.

For the face-saving pro-tip: Always best to have such convos within earshot of other people. If the egos know other people heard you calling them out and it tends to make things play out via option 2. They're often wannabe moguls, ESxJ types, who don't want anyone around who'll shoot cannonball sized holes through their bs façade, which is exactly how they'll view you, a threat! Sometimes deviating a little bit to make things look not too bad gives them an opportunity to blame you for anything they don't like, even if it's exactly what they said. Suddenly, it becomes your fault that you didn't clean up all their logical shortfalls or creative mediocrity. The more the egos hear others badmouth their lame ideas realized, the more your rep takes the flaming arrows in the back.

I don't always, or often for that matter, let things go seemingly unchecked out the door, even if the person doesn't know what they're really asking. It usually only comes after a breaking point of either having previously being unappreciated after having gone above and beyond to make things look good or feeling belittled upon asking for clarification to what was said or requested because "surely, you can't be so country-fool stupid to believe what you initially put down makes sense to anyone not camped inside your small world brain?!"

For some reason, a quote from a lower division screenwriting class professor stuck with me, though it does state the obvious, "No one sets out to make a really bad movie." Like ol meme floating about, "Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes the reason is you're reckless and make poor decisions." Bad movies can come about by the people making the decisions not being anywhere near as smart or creative as they'd like to believe.

I don't know everything, and I've had far more faceplants in the dirt than tiny wins, but I've not once, never, nunca, noch nie, felt a loss of dignity or sense of self over losing a gig by purposefully giving someone exactly what they wanted. I know I'm better at my worst than they are at their best.

This is not to say there isn't a twinge of embarrassment walking out the office like asking a girl to dance at the club and she says no, or the question of if my final check going to be enough to get by until finding another gig, cuz ya sure as hell ain't getting a recommendation or referral out of them! But by the time you get home and make yourself a big assed sandwich and kickback to watch some daytime TV, you feel strangely vindicated, if not reassured, for having protected your rep and for standing up on principle.

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Madrigal
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Re: Are people really like this or does my coworker have a mental problem

Post by Madrigal » Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:14 pm

Spartan26 wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:08 am

Giving somebody exactly what they ask for is sometimes the best and final resort to show someone how wrong they are. That is personal pride. You are dying to prove just how stupid/irrational/impossible/contradictory/nonsensical their request is and no matter how subtle or blunt you are with them, they don't get it. Your name's on the work. Maybe only one or two other people in the entire world know this but it still matters to you. So when push comes to shove and you don't want the people who'll ultimately be seeing the work to be trashing it internally, you show the megalomaniac requestor just how wrong they are by giving them what they said to the T, so they have to deal with the consequence.

"This is what you said, I even asked you about it here, and you reiterated that that's what you wanted."
This basically describes the precise mentality of the person I'm struggling with. They want to give the others what they ask for, consequences be damned. I don't think that one is innocent within that accountability chain just for doing what they are told. This is why I say they would make the perfect nazis. I would never give a client something I know to be wrong, because I have a hand in the work and a part of the responsibility.

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Spartan26
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Re: Are people really like this or does my coworker have a mental problem

Post by Spartan26 » Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:25 am

Madrigal wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:14 pm
Spartan26 wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:08 am

Giving somebody exactly what they ask for is sometimes the best and final resort to show someone how wrong they are. That is personal pride. You are dying to prove just how stupid/irrational/impossible/contradictory/nonsensical their request is and no matter how subtle or blunt you are with them, they don't get it. Your name's on the work. Maybe only one or two other people in the entire world know this but it still matters to you. So when push comes to shove and you don't want the people who'll ultimately be seeing the work to be trashing it internally, you show the megalomaniac requestor just how wrong they are by giving them what they said to the T, so they have to deal with the consequence.

"This is what you said, I even asked you about it here, and you reiterated that that's what you wanted."
This basically describes the precise mentality of the person I'm struggling with. They want to give the others what they ask for, consequences be damned. I don't think that one is innocent within that accountability chain just for doing what they are told. This is why I say they would make the perfect nazis. I would never give a client something I know to be wrong, because I have a hand in the work and a part of the responsibility.
I see what you're saying but we're after two totally different results. For me, it's not "I don't know, I was just following orders" attitude. It wasn't just to play dumb and shrug it off. I'm not doing it so come review time I can hope to keep my job. I've definitely seen that. People who only care about cya that they won't get any meaningful work done. My position is to quit enabling bad policy or procedures or policymakers. I want to put my best foot forward. I don't mind going above and beyond to make sure the client is happy or work is done right. What I don't like is propping up something or some system that has inherent flaws in its design or is guided by lazy or incompetent or egotistical leaders who won't make changes.

My experience has been that consistently trying to beef up problematic directions is never enough. It's also exceedingly stressful. Most upsetting is that then bad behavior gets rewarded because of my work to fix things along the way. Depending on the situation, one option is to quit. Which I've done. What I've seen to be more effective, across different fields and positions, is to make sure pertinent people above see something as prescribed fail in order for something to get changed. It's not blindly following orders. Although you may not see it that way. The old adage is, "if you want to get a street sign or stoplight put in, you'll have to wait until there's an accident."

There's another angle to such situations and that's the "that's not my job" people. They'll get an assignment, see something is wrong, and then try to pass the problem or blame on to someone else, while wiping their hands clean. I find these people to be very smarmy and I find I have less respect for them than anyone.

I guess it looks the same but I see there being a difference between doing exactly what you were told, so as not to rock the boat, and my position of doing exactly what you're told, so the boat will capsize.

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Spartan26
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Re: Are people really like this or does my coworker have a mental problem

Post by Spartan26 » Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:39 am

Madrigal wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:14 pm
I would never give a client something I know to be wrong, because I have a hand in the work and a part of the responsibility.
I re-read your comment and have to acknowledge there can be a difference between work I'm doing if it's for internal or external purposes. Depending on time, I may come back and be more specific about that later.

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SomeInternetBloke
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Re: Are people really like this or does my coworker have a mental problem

Post by SomeInternetBloke » Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:56 am

This thread needs a doily: an ornamental mat that resembles some craft paper scissored into snowflake-like designs or some shit. The point is it's decorative but lets the surface shine through. So people can see it's you. But fitting for special occasions of people management at work and such... Meh, you get the fuckin point. Daddy needs mo' weeds *POINTS GUN then rummages through everyone's pockets for change in exchange for a bit o strange* :msleazy:
"My favourite song from one of my favourite albums, Nena asking you to please, please let her be your pirate. So smooth and joyful, I have to listen to it three times if I listen once" - ashi

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