On the Top of Purpose

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Spartan26
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On the Top of Purpose

Post by Spartan26 » Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:06 am

How important is purpose to you?

Do you feel you have purpose in your life? Or, do you feel that you are fulfilling a purpose?

How much does purpose affect your state of being? Do you actively seek out purpose if you feel otherwise lacking?

Does a person having purpose or not having purpose change how you look at them?

What gives you purpose?

Have you ever thought something would give you purpose that actually did not?

Has anything unexpectedly given you purpose?

Given such concepts/items as love, healthy relationships, security, power, inner peace, respect of peers, freedom, expression of ideas, creative release, conquering of goals, autonomy, or whatever else you may want to include, where would you rank having purpose? Which of the aforementioned would make up your top 3-5?

Do you downplay purpose if it lacks a level of nobility or if its results aren’t inherently known or visible?

Can purpose exist for you without validation? To what extent, if any, does validation determine purpose?

Is there anything you long for that you believe would give you purpose?

Lotta questions here. Great if you want to answer them all but would be happy to read any thoughts you have. To state the obvious, there are a lot of things to contemplate or at least many different ways to attack the subject.
(That should be Topic of Purpose -- if anyone can fix that, please do!)

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starjots
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Re: On the Top of Purpose

Post by starjots » Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:31 am

Spartan26 wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:06 am
How important is purpose to you?
It's a problem, without some sense of purpose, however silly, I get restless. I can't see myself sitting on a beach for an extended period of time unless I was doing something for some reason.
Do you feel you have purpose in your life? Or, do you feel that you are fulfilling a purpose?
Well we just make this shit up as we go, right? Family, fortunately comes packed with a lot of purpose, trying to help the wife and kids be happy - at least in a benevolent, hands-off way. Beyond that, it's anything goes. At some level I think I'm trying to figure out what the heck is going on, which is impossible, and ultimately, not terribly useful even if I succeeded. It's not like I'm going to sell it to somebody or remake the world. At best I do the right thing a little more often.

My brother in law seems to find purpose in working on stuff, building stuff, fixing stuff. I've got a faint echo of that, but not enough to wear out my shoulder joint like he did, not by a long shot. At the moment I'm a bit restless, so purpose is a bit unfocused.
Does a person having purpose or not having purpose change how you look at them?
I judge people harshly whose purposes seem selfish at the expense of others. The neighbors who kidnap cats to sell them and move in with the old Dad to get the inheritance. Generally the fuck the world types engender a Ptah-like scorn (ironic, but the dude ran the last site for years - actions speak louder than words), I got mine and screw you etc. I get that there's no good template for right action out there beyond iron age myths, but still.
Has anything unexpectedly given you purpose?
Sure, emergencies give you purpose. Things being fucked up give you purpose. I think the drama types use this as a shortcut to fill their empty souls. But screw that. I just want to solve the problem and be done with the situation.
Given such concepts/items as love, healthy relationships, security, power, inner peace, respect of peers, freedom, expression of ideas, creative release, conquering of goals, autonomy, or whatever else you may want to include, where would you rank having purpose? Which of the aforementioned would make up your top 3-5?
healthy relationships (but the introverted version), creative release, autonomy. To which I would add understanding/wisdom.
Can purpose exist for you without validation? To what extent, if any, does validation determine purpose?
I think that's the defacto state, no validation. You can't make up some shit (purpose) and then look to someone else to tell you that you are on track. It makes no sense to me.

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MoneyJungle
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Re: On the Top of Purpose

Post by MoneyJungle » Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:38 am

How important is purpose to you?


In a day to day sense, quite a bit and it’s really the wind in my sails. E.g. I have to get up and take out the dog. In terms of moving with a purpose and having stuff to do, sign me up. In a grand sense, capital P Purpose is important but it feels like a millstone around my neck. If the Purpose in the grand sense is something like ‘use your talents for the betterment of mankind’ I’m screwing the pooch and I feel bad about it.


Do you feel you have purpose in your life? Or, do you feel that you are fulfilling a purpose?


My Purpose seems to be to keep an eye on my extended family if purpose is dictated by circumstances. Maybe being dictated to by circumstances is evidence of a lack of Purpose. I’ve never felt like I was put on Earth with a mission from God. I don’t feel like I’m fulfilling anything. Of course you get in the murky waters of free will here.

How much does purpose affect your state of being? Do you actively seek out purpose if you feel otherwise lacking?


Well being is ‘moving with a purpose’ (this may be military brainwashing). I love zipping around on my feet from one place to the next. Ticking boxes. Running errands (at least non-beaureaucratic ones). I don’t feel like I have to seek it out. I’m just fidgety and restless. Sometimes I look at how glacially people move around and I wonder how they can live that way. The happier I am the more baffled I am by the lack of purpose expressed by the average person shuffling like a zombie through the grocery store. I tell myself they’re more dialed in to their grand Purpose than I am and have exhausted themselves in betterment.

Does a person having purpose or not having purpose change how you look at them?


Every one of history’s greatest villains has been a person of Purpose. For every altruistic person of Purpose there’s ten who wouldn’t piss on their neighbor if they were on fire because it might distract from their dogged pursuit of greatness. I frown on aimlessness far less than cut-throat climbers. The people I admire most are dedicated to service and that Purpose makes them a light to the world. My favorite people to hang out with are generally aimless ponderers who have been rendered incapable of judging people by their lack of inertia.


What gives you purpose?


Hungry people. I don’t mean legit hunger so much as my dad not having eaten lunch. Peckish people. I love feeding people good and simple food. Not food that is suitable for social media posts so much as food that shuts up the verbose. I hate inefficient means of food preperation. I believe this is part of God’s purpose for me. Also a good quip makes me feel like I’m here for a reason. Making stern people laugh.

Have you ever thought something would give you purpose that actually did not?


The Navy! I thought it would change me, and it did but I was hoping it would turn me into some kind of automaton. My inner life was no less plagued by fear for all the drills and whatnot. I was no more decisive. Is there no greater evidence of purpose than being decisive?


Has anything unexpectedly given you purpose?


I got a job as a dishwasher because I knew they wouldn’t care if I was on drugs the whole time and wound up in the food biz, which has filled me with daily lists of tasks that I perform with intent for years and years.

Given such concepts/items as love, healthy relationships, security, power, inner peace, respect of peers, freedom, expression of ideas, creative release, conquering of goals, autonomy, or whatever else you may want to include, where would you rank having purpose? Which of the aforementioned would make up your top 3-5?


I think purpose is inextricable from all this stuff. If I define purpose as a cosmic mission then my actions reveal I don’t really care. I’m a big believer that your actions reveal your priorities. Top three: freedom, autonomy, security.

Do you downplay purpose if it lacks a level of nobility or if its results aren’t inherently known or visible?


If it ain’t noble you’re dead to me. Of course, resenting people for chasing money is easy for me because I grew up with plenty. People with a single-minded devotion to fortune or, worse, fame are frowned upon by me. Sure they provide cheap comforts I enjoy but also a lot of headaches I don’t.

Can purpose exist for you without validation? To what extent, if any, does validation determine purpose?


Yes! I just assume everyone is thinking about how valid I am anyway.

Is there anything you long for that you believe would give you purpose?


Sometimes I think I’d be able to finish my book if I was told I had several months to live by a doctor. I don’t long for this as much as I used to.

Lotta questions here. Great if you want to answer them all but would be happy to read any thoughts you have. To state the obvious, there are a lot of things to contemplate or at least many different ways to attack the subject.
(That should be Topic of Purpose -- if anyone can fix that, please do!)


Maybe ugly formatting is my Purpose.

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elfsprin
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Re: On the Top of Purpose

Post by elfsprin » Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:50 am

Great thread. TBD on answers from me.
Attention is the rarest and purest form of generosity - Simone Weil

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Spartan26
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Re: On the Top of Purpose

Post by Spartan26 » Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:08 am

MoneyJungle wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:38 am
If the Purpose in the grand sense is something like ‘use your talents for the betterment of mankind’ I’m screwing the pooch and I feel bad about it.


Do you feel you have purpose in your life? Or, do you feel that you are fulfilling a purpose?


My Purpose seems to be to keep an eye on my extended family if purpose is dictated by circumstances. Maybe being dictated to by circumstances is evidence of a lack of Purpose.
I probably have more to bring up about your second answer but I'll start here. How much do you think it is incumbent on the individual to find Purpose? Verses, destiny or fate choosing who gets to fulfill Purpose? What percentage of people do you think have the possibility of living a Purposed life?

What distinguishes purpose from Purpose? (Just an fyi, I totally got everything you wrote but I think there's something more in your answer that I want to unpack. I'm also not sure exactly what I'm really wanting to know or ask so bare with me if you would.) How much is tied to perspective? E.g. shepherds and kings are interchangeable in the bible or orderlies in a hospital.

Re-asking an earlier question, do you think it is incumbent on the individual to find Purpose, from a moral point of view?

Not meaning to attack you here but why don't you feel you're not fulfilling Purpose? Have you not looked? Do you not want to go down a road where you don't know where it'll lead? Too lazy? Don't care? I don't mean that you don't care, lack of empathy but I mean more like "Look, man, I just can't right now, a'ight?!" I know I need to pick a major but not today, type of thing. Too big of an undertaking? Or is it like, "This is my life, I'm semi-satisfied with it. I'd like to give more, honestly, but I can't and that's where I'm at. Purpose is just going to have to be disappointed in me."?

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Light Leak
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Re: On the Top of Purpose

Post by Light Leak » Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:45 pm

Spartan26 wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:06 am
How important is purpose to you?
It seems to be getting more important to me lately.
Do you feel you have purpose in your life? Or, do you feel that you are fulfilling a purpose?
I don't feel like I'm fulfilling one at this time. I want to believe that I have one.
How much does purpose affect your state of being? Do you actively seek out purpose if you feel otherwise lacking?
Lately I've been trying to figure out what I actually want. I feel like I've spent my whole life doing what other people wanted me to do or what I thought I should be doing.
Does a person having purpose or not having purpose change how you look at them?
No. I think their actions and words change how I look at them. I have no way of knowing if what they're doing or saying actually gives them purpose unless they tell me.
What gives you purpose?
I don't know. I'm still trying to figure that out.
Have you ever thought something would give you purpose that actually did not?
Going to college. Having a job.
Has anything unexpectedly given you purpose?
Not that I can think of.
Given such concepts/items as love, healthy relationships, security, power, inner peace, respect of peers, freedom, expression of ideas, creative release, conquering of goals, autonomy, or whatever else you may want to include, where would you rank having purpose? Which of the aforementioned would make up your top 3-5?
Autonomy/Freedom, creative release, working towards my goals (not necessarily conquering them, and not working towards goals of others unless they are shared goals), love

I would hope those things would bring inner peace.
Can purpose exist for you without validation? To what extent, if any, does validation determine purpose?
Yes, as long as I feel good about it.
Is there anything you long for that you believe would give you purpose?
Seeing more of the world. Having more time to do, or attempt to figure out the things I actually want to do instead of doing things I need to do. Maybe finding something I can do that feels like it's meaningful.

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puerile_polyp
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Re: On the Top of Purpose

Post by puerile_polyp » Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:59 am

First: the purpose of life is to be alive.

To be alive is an intentional act. One must choose life continually and work to be the person one wishes to be. To move consciously towards death. Everything else is bleak zombie misery dream of animal hunger.

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Madrigal
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Re: On the Top of Purpose

Post by Madrigal » Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:01 am

Just wanna say I want to answer this thread but haven't yet found the mental space. It's a good thread.

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Spartan26
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Re: On the Top of Purpose

Post by Spartan26 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:46 am

puerile_polyp wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:59 am
First: the purpose of life is to be alive.

To be alive is an intentional act. One must choose life continually and work to be the person one wishes to be. To move consciously towards death. Everything else is bleak zombie misery dream of animal hunger.
Thanks for answering!! Though concise, I'm hoping you can expand on somethings.

1)First: the purpose of life is to be alive.
To be clear, you're not saying just being in existence, "I breathe, therefore I am," gives purpose but more like, "to live, breathe, eat, sleep is one thing but to be ALIVE! is another." Did I get that right?

2)To be alive is an intentional act. One must choose life continually and work to be the person one wishes to be.
Isn't the choice of being who we want to be a Western, modern/post-modern occurrence? (That's really not bestowed on everybody even in the west). I get it, we live in the time/place/era where we're born but what defines purpose if life is determined without you? Is there such?
What is purpose if we don't meet our goal of being the person we want to be? You said "work to be the person one wishes" is it just the journey? Or, what if someone meets that goal, then what?

3.To move consciously towards death.
This sounded a bit contradictory. Are you saying it's necessary for us to direct our lives towards death? It seemed like before you were basically quoting Shawshank Redemption, "Get busy living or get busy dying" but I'm not sure if you're saying we need to pick our path in life, which is essentially a path to death"??

4. Everything else is bleak zombie misery dream of animal hunger.
So, is choice what separates us from the animals? Am I extrapolating too much? Are you just saying without being who you want to be, you are just a redundant cog in the machine?

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puerile_polyp
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Re: On the Top of Purpose

Post by puerile_polyp » Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:02 am

Spartan26 wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:46 am
Thanks for answering!! Though concise, I'm hoping you can expand on somethings.
1)First: the purpose of life is to be alive.
To be clear, you're not saying just being in existence, "I breathe, therefore I am," gives purpose but more like, "to live, breathe, eat, sleep is one thing but to be ALIVE! is another." Did I get that right?
I'm saying whatever you just did, that was the point of this existence. And reading this now, and everything else. You're meant simply to have this experience.
2)To be alive is an intentional act. One must choose life continually and work to be the person one wishes to be.
Isn't the choice of being who we want to be a Western, modern/post-modern occurrence? (That's really not bestowed on everybody even in the west). I get it, we live in the time/place/era where we're born but what defines purpose if life is determined without you? Is there such?
What is purpose if we don't meet our goal of being the person we want to be? You said "work to be the person one wishes" is it just the journey? Or, what if someone meets that goal, then what?
I don't mean choosing who you want to be in the same sense as, say, deciding to be a dental assistant. I mean living authentically. Here I'm talking about how to choose the existence that feels correct. It requires tapping into one's inner sense of will, the primal force that drives all life.
3.To move consciously towards death.
This sounded a bit contradictory. Are you saying it's necessary for us to direct our lives towards death? It seemed like before you were basically quoting Shawshank Redemption, "Get busy living or get busy dying" but I'm not sure if you're saying we need to pick our path in life, which is essentially a path to death"??
Life doesn't need directing toward death, it's inevitable. We're moving toward it always, I am saying that we should be mindful of that and hold it close to us. I'm borrowing from Heidegger's being-towards-death which I've grown to feel is a very important concept. It allows you to live authentically and makes purpose clear.
4. Everything else is bleak zombie misery dream of animal hunger.
So, is choice what separates us from the animals? Am I extrapolating too much? Are you just saying without being who you want to be, you are just a redundant cog in the machine?
Actually I do think there are probably at least some animals with rich inner lives existing on the same spiritual plane as us. Maybe all living things, idk, maybe all of existence, I have no idea.

But yes to the last line exactly. Without living authentically, consciously, (as Heidegger might say, throwing ourselves rather than being thrown), we're just driven by instinct, social conditioning. When we spend too much time in our senses or thoughts and get the illusion that that's reality, they take on the power to enslave us.

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