Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Worldly and otherworldly topics
User avatar
Senseye
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:48 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by Senseye » Wed Feb 16, 2022 8:09 pm

puerile_polyp wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:23 pm
I'm gonna say neither is silent, it's a consonant blend like "ph" or "th".
I don't think I agree. In a consonant blend, if you take away a consonant, the resulting pronunciation would change.

i.e. that minus a t or h is not the same - tat or hat, whereas scent without a c or s sounds the same - cent or sent.

Anyways, back on the original subject. If I was to claim I was conscious, what criteria would you accept as evidence? If you can't come up with any, I would argue the question is invalid.

User avatar
puerile_polyp
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:01 pm

Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by puerile_polyp » Wed Feb 16, 2022 10:12 pm

Senseye wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 8:09 pm
puerile_polyp wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:23 pm
I'm gonna say neither is silent, it's a consonant blend like "ph" or "th".
I don't think I agree. In a consonant blend, if you take away a consonant, the resulting pronunciation would change.
Not necessarily, but I guess I used bad examples. Consonant blends also include combos like "bl" "sp" "rt" which combine the two consonant sounds into one, and I would argue that is what "sc" is.
Anyways, back on the original subject. If I was to claim I was conscious, what criteria would you accept as evidence? If you can't come up with any, I would argue the question is invalid.
Define consciousness? I would say that it means having an experience and being aware of it.

Proving to me that you are conscious? I'm not sure that's possible. In fact, I'm not sure that I'm not the only consciousness. Not that I don't think you're not conscious, I am just not convinced that we aren't the same observer looking through two apertures. And that has a big impact on how I see others and the world. So I'm curious how others see it.

User avatar
JohnClay
Posts: 313
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:55 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by JohnClay » Wed Feb 16, 2022 10:15 pm

puerile_polyp wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:23 pm
JohnClay wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:44 pm
Yes I'm conscious.
But how do you know you're not just a simulation?
By conscious I mean I have awareness and experience qualia. It is possible that I'm a NPC (non-player character) rather have having an existence outside the simulation like in the Roy game or the dream thought experiment.

User avatar
puerile_polyp
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:01 pm

Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by puerile_polyp » Wed Feb 16, 2022 10:30 pm

JohnClay wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 10:15 pm
puerile_polyp wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:23 pm
JohnClay wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:44 pm
Yes I'm conscious.
But how do you know you're not just a simulation?
By conscious I mean I have awareness and experience qualia. It is possible that I'm a NPC (non-player character) rather have having an existence outside the simulation like in the Roy game or the dream thought experiment.
Why would the creators of such a game give an NPC awareness and experience qualia? How would that add to an NPC's functionality, why would they expend the resources to create a personal experience for a construct, and most importantly - how could they ever know if it worked?

Also, if they were able to create such consciousness in a simulation, wouldn't they be able to give such a consciousness control of a physical body in their "real" existence? Then this consciousness would have an existence outside of the simulation, and therefore be a real player, is that correct? So what's being suggested is that the creators of this "simulation" have the power to create real conscious life from scratch.

User avatar
JohnClay
Posts: 313
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:55 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by JohnClay » Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:54 pm

puerile_polyp wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 10:30 pm
Why would the creators of such a game give an NPC awareness and experience qualia? How would that add to an NPC's functionality, why would they expend the resources to create a personal experience for a construct,
Maybe so the players care about whether the NPCs are suffering or not? There might be no good reason to do it but I think it is a good idea to assume the other characters are capable of suffering, etc.
and most importantly - how could they ever know if it worked?
If people are conscious in a purely materialistic/physical world then they should also be conscious in an accurate simulation of that kind of world....
Also, if they were able to create such consciousness in a simulation, wouldn't they be able to give such a consciousness control of a physical body in their "real" existence? Then this consciousness would have an existence outside of the simulation, and therefore be a real player, is that correct? So what's being suggested is that the creators of this "simulation" have the power to create real conscious life from scratch.
I think the only reason why you'd want the character to have an existence outside the simulation is so that they can have an afterlife....

User avatar
Senseye
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:48 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by Senseye » Thu Feb 17, 2022 8:40 pm

puerile_polyp wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 10:12 pm
Proving to me that you are conscious? I'm not sure that's possible. In fact, I'm not sure that I'm not the only consciousness. Not that I don't think you're not conscious, I am just not convinced that we aren't the same observer looking through two apertures. And that has a big impact on how I see others and the world. So I'm curious how others see it.
Fair enough. I don't see it like you do. I am skeptical of all things supernatural (like a soul or cosmic consciousness or anything of that ilk). Ergo, as far as human beings go, I think every individual is an independent biological organism whose conscious is tied to their brain function. When that brain function ceases to operate, the associated consciousness will also cease to exist.

I will, of course, carry out a postmortem re-evaluation if I find myself with a consciousness with which to perform one. Alas, if my awareness persists after my death, but my memory does not, I will forget this plan.

User avatar
puerile_polyp
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:01 pm

Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by puerile_polyp » Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:08 am

Senseye wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 8:40 pm
puerile_polyp wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 10:12 pm
Proving to me that you are conscious? I'm not sure that's possible. In fact, I'm not sure that I'm not the only consciousness. Not that I don't think you're not conscious, I am just not convinced that we aren't the same observer looking through two apertures. And that has a big impact on how I see others and the world. So I'm curious how others see it.
Fair enough. I don't see it like you do. I am skeptical of all things supernatural (like a soul or cosmic consciousness or anything of that ilk). Ergo, as far as human beings go, I think every individual is an independent biological organism whose conscious is tied to their brain function. When that brain function ceases to operate, the associated consciousness will also cease to exist.
What does a brain do that is sufficient to create consciousness? It has sensory inputs, the ability to think, memory, a set of instructions that tell it to want to live and reproduce, outputs to interact with the world. If I create these things with electronics, a computer with a camera and wheels and arms, will it be conscious?

User avatar
Senseye
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:48 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by Senseye » Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:21 am

puerile_polyp wrote:
Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:08 am
What does a brain do that is sufficient to create consciousness? It has sensory inputs, the ability to think, memory, a set of instructions that tell it to want to live and reproduce, outputs to interact with the world. If I create these things with electronics, a computer with a camera and wheels and arms, will it be conscious?
Possibly. I am not sure you could instill a will to live into a non-biological creation, but it may be possible. If so, I would not be surprised if the resulting creation acted conscious. At least, I would expect it to act in its own interest, which it itself would determine. I am considering an independent will to be consciousness in this case.

An experiment would likely provide some interesting results.

User avatar
JohnClay
Posts: 313
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:55 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by JohnClay » Fri Feb 18, 2022 8:40 am

puerile_polyp wrote:
Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:08 am
What does a brain do that is sufficient to create consciousness? It has sensory inputs, the ability to think, memory, a set of instructions that tell it to want to live and reproduce, outputs to interact with the world. If I create these things with electronics, a computer with a camera and wheels and arms, will it be conscious?
It depends if consciousness can be solely explained by physics and the physical world - or whether there is another kind of substance - the "observer". It could tune into the brain like a radio.
If there is only the physical world then it is the structure or functioning of the brain mechanisms that allow it to be conscious.
If the function is emulated in software then it would also be conscious....
An alternative is to calculate similar behaviours without the subjective inner experience so that totally convincing NPCs in a video game don't have to be conscious and don't have to experience suffering....

User avatar
Utisz
Posts: 676
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:35 am

Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by Utisz » Wed Mar 02, 2022 7:14 am

Are you the only conscious being in this universe?
No.
And how do you know?
I'm not conscious.

Post Reply