Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

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puerile_polyp
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Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by puerile_polyp » Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:53 pm

And how do you know?

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JohnClay
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Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by JohnClay » Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:17 am

puerile_polyp wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:53 pm
And how do you know?
Well I believe I'm probably in a video game:
Elon Musk said:
"...the games will become indistinguishable from reality. ...there would probably be billions of such computers and set-top boxes. ...it would seem to follow that the odds that we're in base reality (NOT a simulation) is one in billions"

There is a distinct possibility that I'm the main player in the game:

In "The Roy Game"


In Alan Watts' dream thought experiment


In those cases they chose to live a life involving suffering....

Then there is the matter of Philosophical Zombies:
In future video games, non-player characters could act just like conscious beings but without the ability to genuinely feel anything, including negative sensations. It would be up to the simulation's creator whether they want billions of characters to experience genuine suffering or not.

I'm not sure if I'm the only conscious being but I think many of the people in the world aren't....

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puerile_polyp
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Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by puerile_polyp » Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:58 am

JohnClay wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:17 am
I'm not sure if I'm the only conscious being but I think many of the people in the world aren't....
How would you know whether or not someone is?

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JohnClay
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Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by JohnClay » Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:25 am

puerile_polyp wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:58 am
JohnClay wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:17 am
I'm not sure if I'm the only conscious being but I think many of the people in the world aren't....
How would you know whether or not someone is?
I think there could be billions of games running like Elon Musk talks about.... they'd want to cut corners to keep the running costs as low as possible... so many of the 7 billion people might not be continuously or fully conscious... I think there could be some kind of machine learning device running things and it would be able to cut corners in a way that is indistinguishable from a base reality.

On the topic of machine learning check out DALL-E:
https://openai.com/blog/dall-e/

It can generate cartoons of a baby panda with headphones wielding a blue lightsaber:
panda.png
panda.png (574.12 KiB) Viewed 3648 times
And generate photorealistic images of teapots in the style of a Rubik's cube:
teapot.png
teapot.png (671.42 KiB) Viewed 3648 times
So anyway I can't know either way and it is better to just assume everyone is conscious... that way the game is more immersive....

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puerile_polyp
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Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by puerile_polyp » Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:16 am

Immersive... so does it draw you into the world more if you believe that there are others like yourself? How would it be different if you didn't assume that others are conscious?

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Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by JohnClay » Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:10 am

puerile_polyp wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:16 am
Immersive... so does it draw you into the world more if you believe that there are others like yourself? How would it be different if you didn't assume that others are conscious?
If you didn't think everyone was conscious you'd be more like Rick in this video:



And you might be more likely to be hospitalised.... e.g. like when I was trying to hypnotise other people to believe they're in a video game:

https://www.giraffeboards.com/blog.php?b=1572

Another video about Rick and whether Morty is simulated:



Though in Rick and Morty sometimes the simulations aren't indistinguishable from reality....

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puerile_polyp
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Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by puerile_polyp » Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:20 pm

In these situations you've presented, a person comes from the real world into a simulation of the real world. It reproduces all of the same physics and logic and concepts of what a human being is. And you've also said that you suspect that you yourself are in a simulation like this. But what is it a simulation of? Did you come here from another reality and just don't remember it? Are we assuming that there is another world just like this one but more perfect and true, and that everything we experience is just a flawed representation of that? ie Platonic Idealism.

Rick doesn't seem interested in interacting with the simulated people because they are poorly simulated. If they were much more accurate facsimiles, and if he had nothing more accurate to compare them to, what would be different? In fact, we've seen in this show that all of the main characters have lots of clones and alternate reality versions of themselves, and they all think of themselves as real, and they form genuine relationships with each other, and yet they murder the alternate versions of themselves, work against each other, and seem indifferent to the question of whether there is any link between these consciousnesses. The show seems to assume a purely materialist view that there is none. So Rick will casually replace his friend with a facsimile, as if Morty really is nothing more than a complex automaton. And Rick sees himself as nothing more than that as well.

So I suppose I skipped ahead, the first question would actually be, are you a conscious being in this universe?

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JohnClay
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Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by JohnClay » Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:44 pm

puerile_polyp wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:20 pm
In these situations you've presented, a person comes from the real world into a simulation of the real world.
Yes though in the early stages of Alan Watts' dream though experiment it involves a world where all of his wildest dreams come true and there could be magic.
It reproduces all of the same physics and logic and concepts of what a human being is.
The simulations would be based in a futuristic world where human beings would probably be enhanced trans-humans or post-humans....
And you've also said that you suspect that you yourself are in a simulation like this. But what is it a simulation of?
Mostly just the earth. I don't think the 10^57 atoms in our Sun are simulated very closely. Also most people on earth might be approximated.
Did you come here from another reality and just don't remember it?
In the Roy game and Alan Watts' dream examples, yes.
Are we assuming that there is another world just like this one but more perfect and true, and that everything we experience is just a flawed representation of that? ie Platonic Idealism.
I think there might be more variety in life on earth in a simulation compared to the original real world. Our world could be an ancestor simulation - that means the future is simulating their past.
Rick doesn't seem interested in interacting with the simulated people because they are poorly simulated. If they were much more accurate facsimiles, and if he had nothing more accurate to compare them to, what would be different?
A key goal of the simulation is often to be indistinguishable from reality.
So I suppose I skipped ahead, the first question would actually be, are you a conscious being in this universe?
Yes I'm conscious.

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Senseye
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Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by Senseye » Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:46 pm

IMO, you are asking a post doctorate level unanswerable question.

Let's start with something more at the beginner level.

In the word scent is it the 's' or the 'c' that is silent? And how do you know?

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puerile_polyp
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Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?

Post by puerile_polyp » Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:23 pm

JohnClay wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:44 pm
Yes I'm conscious.
But how do you know you're not just a simulation?
Senseye wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:46 pm
In the word scent is it the 's' or the 'c' that is silent? And how do you know?
I'm gonna say neither is silent, it's a consonant blend like "ph" or "th".

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