INTP Live

File this under unpopular opinions.

Some students NEED to tune teachers out due to poor memory, attentiveness, and level of ability, and if they try to pay attention and learn what they can, it won't be enough to pass and will be a major struggle every day just for their failure. And effective home tutoring and studying could be extremely difficult too, if not impossible. Academics could be hopeless and failure a certainty if correctly graded. What percentage of students are like this? Two percent? I wouldn't be surprised if it was more. Pushing them to do what's necessary for them to pass could be FAR worse than child labor. It's a good thing most are able to get away with daydreaming and giving up.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Ne ... ref1198654

In The Disappearance of Childhood (1982), Postman claimed that childhood is essentially a social artifact. Its origin was closely linked to the printing press and the growth of literacy, which made possible the segregation of groups into children and adults. Television, however, tends to eliminate the divide between childhood and adulthood, since its imagery offers a kind of undifferentiated access rather than using words to segregate audiences according to age or level of development.

It also said something about children being like little adults in the middle ages....

JohnClay wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:44 am

Television, however, tends to eliminate the divide between childhood and adulthood, since its imagery offers a kind of undifferentiated access rather than using words to segregate audiences according to age or level of development.

That applies to me. i think my vocabulary was better than most kids' because of all my TV watching and less hanging out with kids and practically no reading. My spelling was always bad though....oh wait...it's actually saying the opposite.

You mean ineffective education right?

Within reason, some students are not academically inclined. But I think everybody can learn to read, write and do basic arithmetic (although the latter may not really be needed in the computer/calculator age).

After say, junior high, the non academic types would probably be better off in a trade school or working as apprentices. If such programs existed on a widespread basis. You can't farm out trades like plumbing et. al. to an overseas sweatshop!

Being old, like I am, and growing up in a rural farming community, it was not all that uncommon for the sons of farmers to drop out of school around age 15/16 to work on the farm which they would eventually inherit. With full parental approval. That was still the family farm era, not sure that would work as well today. But there are still family farms around. Certainly for crops. Less so for livestock.

Senseye wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:28 pm

You mean ineffective education right?

No. If money is no object and the experts can design any education system they want, like one teacher per underachieving student, and the best tutor after school, that would result in the most effective education possible, but it would make some students miserable. More would pass and some wouldn't be miserable, but others would try hard, be miserable, fail anyway, run away, kill themselves, etc. It may be good to allow the academically uninclined to daydream and neglect their studies in some cases.

OK. But I was thinking more along the 'child labor versus' point. Child labor would be a worse option for a child who could be effectively educated. But yes, if you interpret as a child for whom education is almost certain to fail, I see what you are getting at.

Senseye wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 26, 2023 8:16 pm

OK. But I was thinking more along the 'child labor versus' point. Child labor would be a worse option for a child who could be effectively educated. But yes, if you interpret as a child for whom education is almost certain to fail, I see what you are getting at.

I thought kids that aren't good at school would be happier at a job that they are competent at that they somewhat enjoy and are getting paid reasonably for.... BTW I know some classmates that got low grades but then became quite successful in their careers. There is also a difference between job skill related education (like woodwork and metal work and animal husbandry - or apprenticeships) and education that is more theoretical. I think this is related to their personality types. BTW my current career is a cleaner involving shopping centre toilets and some cafe tables. Even though I was the dux in my high school. At high school I had no idea what career I wanted. I started doing an applied maths and statistics degree because a teacher recommended it. Then eventually I did a Bachelor of Software Engineering degree.... but due to mental illness and 6 ECT sessions my "working memory" became a lot worse....

BTW when I was younger I thought it would be good if schooling was based on ability rather than age - on a per subject basis.