Independent from what? You are created with a set of instructions (DNA) that tell you to survive and reproduce. You have inputs from your environment, and you have outputs. Do you have a will that is independent of all of that?Senseye wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:21 amPossibly. I am not sure you could instill a will to live into a non-biological creation, but it may be possible. If so, I would not be surprised if the resulting creation acted conscious. At least, I would expect it to act in its own interest, which it itself would determine. I am considering an independent will to be consciousness in this case.puerile_polyp wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:08 amWhat does a brain do that is sufficient to create consciousness? It has sensory inputs, the ability to think, memory, a set of instructions that tell it to want to live and reproduce, outputs to interact with the world. If I create these things with electronics, a computer with a camera and wheels and arms, will it be conscious?
An experiment would likely provide some interesting results.
Are you the only conscious being in this universe?
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Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?
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Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?
I don't think there's a meaningful qualitative difference between myself and a lobster- it's just a matter of complexity. I think humans have been on the dunning kruger slippy slide since the beginning fawning over ourselves with species chauvinism. This is not to say that our brain isn't literally the most complex thing we know of in the universe, nor is it to say we even understand a fraction of its vagaries. Organic chemistry is a huge example of this. We're still years away from being able to create a fake leaf, so how would we be any closer to creating something that runs on neurotransmitters? However, I still think it will eventually be a big equation, albeit an impossibly complex one with some unknowns left.
I'd also explain the species chauvinism, and all the resultant branches of philosophy, theology, linguistics, as being a function of life itself. We have to think we're special to reproduce- both in the specific individual sense and in the collective sense. We are the most sophisticated problem solving machines we've ever experienced, desperately attempting to stay alive.
I'd also explain the species chauvinism, and all the resultant branches of philosophy, theology, linguistics, as being a function of life itself. We have to think we're special to reproduce- both in the specific individual sense and in the collective sense. We are the most sophisticated problem solving machines we've ever experienced, desperately attempting to stay alive.
Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?
People can build fires, computers, and visit the moon.... can lobsters do things like that to any degree at all?Buttrock as zen wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:30 pmI don't think there's a meaningful qualitative difference between myself and a lobster- it's just a matter of complexity.
Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?
I believe the expression is "a question obscene in its very conception".
Last edited by ashi on Sun Mar 13, 2022 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?
If we created leaf, we could observe and test that it's a living leaf. How would we ever do this with a consciousness? How can we be sure we haven't already created a consciousness? What makes you even think that things with brains are conscious? What does a brain do that creates consciousness?Buttrock as zen wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:30 pmI don't think there's a meaningful qualitative difference between myself and a lobster- it's just a matter of complexity. I think humans have been on the dunning kruger slippy slide since the beginning fawning over ourselves with species chauvinism. This is not to say that our brain isn't literally the most complex thing we know of in the universe, nor is it to say we even understand a fraction of its vagaries. Organic chemistry is a huge example of this. We're still years away from being able to create a fake leaf, so how would we be any closer to creating something that runs on neurotransmitters? However, I still think it will eventually be a big equation, albeit an impossibly complex one with some unknowns left.
I'd also explain the species chauvinism, and all the resultant branches of philosophy, theology, linguistics, as being a function of life itself. We have to think we're special to reproduce- both in the specific individual sense and in the collective sense. We are the most sophisticated problem solving machines we've ever experienced, desperately attempting to stay alive.
It's one thing to not be able to figure out how to create it, it's another to not even know what it is. Doesn't it seem intuitively that it's deeply tied to the question of "why" are we desperately trying to stay alive?
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Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?
puerile_polyp wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:28 amIf we created leaf, we could observe and test that it's a living leaf. How would we ever do this with a consciousness?
Really depends on how you define consciousness- if it means awareness of self and surroundings, yeah that's a real low bar. I would agree with both the definition and the implication, that consciousness is not something remotely unique to humanity.
That's my point- consciousness is a sub function of life.puerile_polyp wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:28 amDoesn't it seem intuitively that it's deeply tied to the question of "why" are we desperately trying to stay alive?
Lobsters can do stuff we can't do. I grant that those are qualitative differences between species, but do our particular differences somehow mean we have an extra component?
Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?
This man deserves a response.
ENTP
"Our truest selves exist within the observational incongruencies among general first impressions and further analyses of the finer details."
- from my Ph.D. thesis in psychobabble
"Our truest selves exist within the observational incongruencies among general first impressions and further analyses of the finer details."
- from my Ph.D. thesis in psychobabble
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Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?
Okay, if you define it like that, what is the test for whether something is conscious?Buttrock as zen wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 10:44 pmReally depends on how you define consciousness- if it means awareness of self and surroundings, yeah that's a real low bar.
Do you think it's unique to organic life?I would agree with both the definition and the implication, that consciousness is not something remotely unique to humanity.
How does consciousness help us live? Wouldn't it be just as good or better if we weren't conscious, but just biological machines with advanced brains processing stimulus response? Like a very advanced robot that behaves like one of us.That's my point- consciousness is a sub function of life.
Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?
Consciousness is as consciousness does. Either that or it's a category error.
I dunno. I find the whole solipsism angle to be an unnecessary attack against object permanence. I find it inelegant.
Sure, there might be some deus ex machina lurking out there to take a dump on the final act, but if I found out that I was the only conscious being in the universe, I'd be wanting to speak to a manager or something.
I dunno. I find the whole solipsism angle to be an unnecessary attack against object permanence. I find it inelegant.
Sure, there might be some deus ex machina lurking out there to take a dump on the final act, but if I found out that I was the only conscious being in the universe, I'd be wanting to speak to a manager or something.
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Re: Are you the only conscious being in this universe?
Why do we need to be conscious of anything in order to prioritize our own survival? I could program a robot to attempt to preserve itself and reproduce. It doesn't need to feel anything or have any internal experience of existence.puerile_polyp wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:28 amI'd also explain the species chauvinism, and all the resultant branches of philosophy, theology, linguistics, as being a function of life itself. We have to think we're special to reproduce- both in the specific individual sense and in the collective sense. We are the most sophisticated problem solving machines we've ever experienced, desperately attempting to stay alive.