Dot wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:58 am
Yes, I wasn't referring to his views as Russian propaganda, I was referring to your own as such. I don't believe you've actually watched that video you keep bringing up to support all your points. You probably - like most people who consume Russian propaganda - just read some manipulative summary of it on social media and impulsively took it at its word. Also noted that the comments are turned off on youtube so that the bubble created by the leading title doesn't get burst. In the video, he makes an uncomfortable politician-y squirm in response to an apparently leading question, and says that he understands that 'some percentage of Ukrainians' - not himself - view Bandera as a hero 'since he defended Ukrainian freedom,' but then adds that the positive commemoration of him is 'not quite right.' The video clip ends there, but here's what he says afterwards:
"to be honest, in general, what to say about it, I'm absolutely fine with decommunization, the society has chosen and it's normal, I think it's just how you say there are undeniable heroes for me, so for me, look at the fact that Stepan Bandera is a hero for some percentage of Ukrainians and
this is normal cool this is one of those people who defended the freedom of Ukraine"
"An uncomfortable politician-y squirm"
but then adds that the positive commemoration of him is 'not quite right.'
"but I think that you know that when we make so many streets you understand the bridges and call them by the same name I think it's not quite right"
It's about the fact that they've been naming dozens of different streets after him. It's a response to people questioning why they're replacing the names of so many Russian cultural figures who were great artists and such with a guy who was a terrorist Nazi collaborator.
"decommunization" is a euphemism for this long campaign to eradicate the Russian language and culture from this region. It refers also to banning Russian literature and music, banning the speaking of the Russian language in schools, banning Russian religious organizations...
AKA "cultural genocide", and a violation of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.
It's characteristic of Russian propaganda to extrapolate from that and say, as you have, that Ukrainians as a whole are Nazis and to suggest that they have an interest in attacking Poland.
I said no such thing, stop making shit up.
Moreover, it's an antisemitic trope to call a Jewish person (Zelenskyy) a Nazi sympathizer.
No, it's a tired old defense of fascism to claim that any criticism of a person who happens to be Jewish is antisemitism, straight from the playbook of apartheid Israel. Zelensky being Jewish is completely irrelevant and is not a defense against accusations of being a Nazi sympathizer when he's on camera literally praising a Nazi.
I never defended the far right members of the current Ukrainian government (and by the way, there are none
"the Verkhovna Rada, the unicameral parliament of Ukraine, on Sunday tweeted a photo of the commander-in-chief of the Ukrainian army, Gen. Valeriy Zaluzhny, next to a portrait of Bandera, alongside several of Bandera's quotes"
That's not the twitter account of some fringe minority members. That's the official one for the whole body.
What are the "propaganda links" you're referring to? This is straight from the mouths of the Ukrainian government.
All you're doing with these lame gaslighting attempts is cementing my low opinion of your character.
As far as "the Ukrainians as a whole are Nazis", that's as far from what I'm saying as can be. I'm saying that the tyrants in charge in Kyiv are Nazi sympathizers if not outright fascists. Most of the Ukrainians are trapped in this conflict by them and would prefer to be allowed to leave the country.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/15/uk ... an-rights/
Banning people from leaving the country is something historically only done by the worst authoritarian regimes the planet has seen - North Korea, Nazi Germany, USSR, etc
Senseye wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:13 pm
I can't even make sense of your argument it is so daft. Literal nazis? Please. That's pure Russian propaganda. I don't equate a few statements about a guy 75 years back to invading/bombing and killing civilians. I can see you do. No point in trying to discuss it further.
Rooting for Ukraine to defend itself is hardly rooting for a war machine. But right, Ukraine is a nazi regime (see some dumb comments made by a few Ukraine politicians). I guess Russia is doing the world a favor after all.
You should move there and join the Russian army. I'm sure they would be happy to feature you in their propaganda.
You can't make sense of it? Well maybe it was unfair to say you're arguing in bad faith, maybe you're just dumb.
I haven't said one word praising Putin or the Russian army, but since you're such a fan of the Ukraine regime why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go there? They are fielding old men. Show that you're something other than a bloodthirsty old warmonger cheering for younger men to be sent their deaths from the comfort and safety of your home.